Is it reasonably possible to clear savage without Synced Burst windows?

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

You are strangely fixated for someone who admittedly does not raid.

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That's easy. I've unsubbed and am bored. But I'm finding discussing this really interesting. Especially because I know so little because I don't raid. And I suppose I care a bit that things improve. But not a lot as its complicated/costly/hard so I don't imagine for a second anything 'at all' will come of this.

Its not fixated. Its interested. As some one who spent the last 18 months on Chaos running temple of quarn and LoA the bar is low.
Me I'm fine with the jobs as they are. Or at least its not high on my list. Although I think old SNN was better than current for example. Just way more interesting.

Also interesting that maybe the jury is far from in on whether synced burst windows matter at all.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

The Parser devs could do a lot to help here. All DPS that is created by a support buff should belong to the buff job, not the player who's buffed.

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Isn't that just rDPS on FF Logs, which has been around since Shadowbringers?

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Isn't that just ... rDPS on FF Logs, which has been around since Shadowbringers?

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I wouldn't know. I don't use logs myself. Was not the impression I got. If the support job gets the whole party's buff DPS attributed to it, and that is what's considered before people start whining that their job does 4% less DPS at 100% perfect uptime ,when their skill on average accounts for 20% variance, then this is a problem that's already fixed. Its not the impression I got I guess is all. Glad to hear its not as stupid as feared.

Ok yeah. Had a look at a certain site and indeed rDPS is the first thing that's looked at by default. So thats another think I learned today thank you.

While it CAN be depending on performance, at that point hitting your raid buff every 120s should really not pose any issue. Drifting is fine so long as you try to pinpoint where its happening and do what you can to mitigate it, but you should never willfully not hit your raid buff CD in time with the party if it can be helped. They even added loud and unique sound effect to them as a "hey dude, the party is buffing, join in!" last expac.

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Originally Posted by chip793

While it CAN be depending on performance, at that point hitting your raid buff every 120s should really not pose any issue. Drifting is fine so long as you try to pinpoint where its happening and do what you can to mitigate it, but you should never willfully not hit your raid buff CD in time with the party if it can be helped. They even added loud and unique sound effect to them as a "hey dude, the party is buffing, join in!" last expac.

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Again interesting. So it is sufficient that everyone hits their buffs/cooldowns at the same time, but it doesn't really matter much if they are syncing their bursts/gauges etc with those buff windows?

Prior to burst windows all being synchronized, I simply cleared this sort of content without caring about burst windows (aside from potions if the party was using/coordinating them) but I'm bias here as a tank with no raid-wide damage buffs.

I don't know that the fights were designed to be synchronized particularly in the past, because players that synchronized and optimized everything found DPS checks overly trivial compared to regular players (at least from what I used to see hardcore statics say). But now that they are synchronized by design, they can scale the content accordingly (but the first raid tier, which we're currently on, is usually more lax in all respects).

That said, you'd always want some of the following to actually clear successfully:

• Players that can actually do their rotation well.
• Food.
• Tinctures.
• Materia melds.
• Gear higher than the content.

Again, I said the word "some". You don't necessarily need all of these things but the more that you have the more likely the party would clear regardless of things like burst windows. And obviously the DPS checks get rougher on the final floors.

In EW, all the burst windows were synchronized by design, thus allowing them to scale the fights with synchronized bursts in mind. So even if you're not trying to synchronize your burst, it will be anyway now in most cases, making the question a bit pointless in my opinion.

In my experience, the first Savage floor typically dies about half way through the fight by the end of the tier due to everyone being ilvl capped. It's crazy how much of it usually gets skipped. The gear increases have a huge impact on their own, so it's easy for players to jump in a bit later in the tier for an easier time with DPS.

Regarding your points:

• Jobs are homogenous because when they are not, people complain "my job doesn't have X ability that other job has". Gap closers are an easy example but there are plenty of others.
• Synchronized burst windows do cause some of the homogenization and this was made worse in EW with the alignment of burst windows to 1 or 2 minute intervals. The easy solution, in my opinion, would be removing raid-wide damage buffs altogether and making damage buffs not multiplicative, so that job design isn't constrained as much.
• The DPS checks aren't really that hard usually, unless the party sucks or has composition issues (ie. all the lowest DPS jobs in one party together with lack of raid buffs). I've often killed savage floors with milliseconds to enrage early in the tier, and sometimes there are wipes the few pulls before it, but guess what? You just all think "what could I do better to get a bit more damage in?" and if all 8 of you do that, then you beat it. The DPS checks get way easier as weeks go by due to tomestone gear/normal raid weapon etc.
• PF prog will always be unsatisfactory unless they literally make it as hard as Ifrit normal, because it's PF.

The burst windows being synchronized in EW was obviously meant to make casual players do what hardcore statics were doing already, without realizing it, so that the DPS checks weren't easier for those synchronizing them. The side effect was us reaching a point where world racers actually couldn't clear the DPS check in P8S - which might not have happened pre-EW even if they over-estimated HP due to them not accounting for raid buffs being synchronized as much.

I don't really get all your talk about third-party tools. You don't need them to clear content nor to improve, provided you understand basic things about the game like snapshotting and uptime. EU players tend to demand them a lot more than NA in my experience, so I can see why it's bothering you, but it's not as much of an issue in the NA region.

With Viper being the flavor of the tier, everyone playing Picto, WHM/SGE is the most common healer combo ... it's actually fairly easy to see a part with no burst window. This tier I usually play MCH in PF so really I just need a sam for the last slot and you have a no burst window party.

And everytime it happens ... it just feels so good due to the freedom you have.

I mean with how job rotations are structured, there really isn't an excuse to not have at least something to cram into the buff window. The most complex it ever really gets is with jobs like DRK/SGE/SAM where you want to hold onto a charge for certain actions to slot two of them into the buff window for much more potency. Regardles of party structure, you're bound to have at least one or two raid buffs and it's never a bad thing to capitalize on them and even if the whole party are "selfish" jobs, it's possible to clear content if they all hit their buttons on time.

The biggest DPS loss will always be dying. Damage downs suck, especially in fights where they're just the flat 50% non-stacking variant. But they're nowhere near as punishing as a bunch of missed GCDs.

I don't understand the argument that syncing burst windows makes PFing harder. It is commonly understood that you press your raid buff on GCD 3, with some exceptions by class, and some exceptions by fight. If there is confusion you can simply say "gcd 2 or 3 for burst?" and then you know. After the first buff comes out gcd 3 every other buff comes out exactly on cooldown.

Yes it's possible, the DPS checks the pass couple of tiers are very forgiving.