Please don’t rework old content willy nilly

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

You don't have to imagine it, Squadrons can do Copperbell Mines (Hard) and it's one of the harder ones to reliably clear because you personally have to handle every single mechanic with all three bosses while directing your squad to deal with threats that pop up in each fight.

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Well what I meant was Duty Support doing it. The difference is that your squadron doesn't seem programmed to do mechanics. They just follow you around with mitigation so that mechanics don't kill them too easily. If the goal was to have NPCs actually acknowledge mechanics and try to do them, although they could drag the boss away from the flame, I also can just see SE turning it into a round circle arena like they always do. :rolleyes: I don't know why, I just feel like that's SE's logic given Copperbell normal.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I also can just see SE turning it into a round circle arena like they always do. :rolleyes: I don't know why, I just feel like that's SE's logic given Copperbell normal.

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That's their approach to every dungeon since arguably Stormblood.

I can bet money right now that every reworked boss is going to be in a circle or square arena and feature a few out of their standard box of mechanics.
Stack, spread, chariot, dynamo, maybe super simplified proteans (since you only need to fit 4 players around the boss), exaflares, frontal cleaves, half-room cleaves and if you're lucky you might get a proximity meteor, because that's all the mechanics that exist nowadays.

This. For the love of god, leave the optional dungeons alone. They might not be the pinnacle of content design, but they are unique and deserve to stay. Aurum Vale and its weird stealth segments are a rite of passage, it does not deserve the fate of being turned into a hallway with 2 mobs packs between each boss. I don't care if the design feels outdated, chasing around the tentacles on Hullbreaker Isle or using the transforming boxes in Shisui is more fresh and exciting than yet another stack/spread/dodge to add to the hundreds of stale modern bosses.

Not to mention, FFXIV is already rightfully criticized for being the most anti-social MMO. Do we really need to double down on that? Making the MSQ single-player compatible I can understand, but come on. It's an MMO, you should expect to have to interact with other players to do content. The time spent safety-padding these dungeons for the pitiful trust AI is better spent on creating new content.

Older dungeons have aged like milk, mechanically and statistically. Halatali is a great start.

I'm not thrilled that they're being remade with Trusts in mind, but I do think they need to be revamped.

i'm really wondering how this ends. we have currently 98 dungeons in the game and 56 of them are part of the msq. a lot of them are very similar to each other, while they slowly change the others to be also similar to the large part.


while there were always people critizising the boring and always samey pattern, recently those people seem to have multiplied. people who starting to look over those nice visuals and soundtracks we have and seeing what we actually do.
when will it be enough? changing old dungeons will make this worse.

they made the mechanics faster in DT dungeons which helps, but its still the same mechanics. and the changes to the trash pattern between the bosses are terrible


and while it wasnt the most obvious mechanic i'm still disappointed about the changes of the second boss in the 69 dungeon xD

That boss will be turned into a flat circular arena without the slopes leading to it, with no adds, and instead of going to the center to be invulnerable it will go to the center to do a big wide aoe that you have to dodge. And all the chains you have to pull before that boss's room? They will be gone, because Mr. Dad McNoTime can't afford to spend whole 2 minutes longer in a dungeon in case a chain is overlooked.

They really should have been focusing on making MSQ trials trust compatible instead of ruining completely optional dungeons for their trash-fire duty support system.

I think what worries me the most is that we keep hearing all about the "enhanced encounter design" coming in 7.2, but if every piece of MSQ content is going to be trust compatible moving forward, how is that going to work? Trusts cannot handle anything more than navigating in straight lines to predetermined spots. Designing content around their capabilities is already severely limiting to the types of mechanics that can be created. I just don't see a future where this is healthy for the game in the long run.

Aside from them gutting all the unique (if sometimes jank) mechanics from early dungeons along with the reworks, I'm also concerned they'll do something similar to what they did to Toto-Rak when it was reworked, and strip out all of the side areas in the older dungeons in favor of the same corridor we've been getting since ShB. Say what you will about the actual mechanics involved in pre-rework T-R's map, it losing all its twisty corridors and alternate paths took out a lot of the actual "dungeon" feel from it. A lot of the optional ARR dungeons are similar, even if in a normal roulette run nobody is going off the beaten path to grab a coffer or check out an empty room, that's no reason to rip them out - especially if the reasoning is for Duty Support, considering playing with NPCs allows the actual player to explore and check out side rooms since they're not being rushed along by other people. But on the flipside, they kept all the optional rooms in Sastasha and Haukke Manor, so maybe there's a bit of hope.


I think there's only a couple bosses or mechanics I'd definitely like to see redone (Stone Vigil HM's 2nd boss is the one everyone talks about, but the final boss of Hullbreaker is still a headache too) but hopefully it won't come at the cost of every dungeon's uniqueness. Although there's almost a 100% chance that a rework means we won't be able to skip the mobs in those 2 rooms in Cutter's Cry anymore, so that's annoying... :')

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

Trust system is ruining how we currently have dungeon design that is simplified so trust system can understand them..

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They're also clearly impacting the MSQ. It was pretty obvious in Dawntrail that the Scions were only showing up so they could join us in a dungeon, then immediately left. Multiple times.

There are definitely some dungeons that could use a bit of a touchup, but I'd prefer they don't get completely butchered and lose all their flavor, which unfortunately seems to be the direction things are going. That and it's just a baffling choice to use resources, to be honest. Why do this instead of focusing on pushing out field content sooner? It's almost as out of left field as voiced mahjong. Who asked for this?

It wouldn't be quite so bad if the remakes weren't so entirely soulless. Thousand Maws is the pinnacle of lazy design. I miss the old design, and that's saying a lot lol