The Dawntrail MSQ has writing issues, but it’s still a good expansion regardless.

The dungeons and trials (other than that scene near the end of the third one) are all good. The changes to fates are good. The zones are ok. The music is ok. If you remove the MSQ from the equation it is an easy 7-8 out of 10. Unfortunately to fairly evaluate it we have to consider the MSQ and that on it's own is a 1-10.

I'll just comment on some points:

Zoraal Ja: I think certain cut scenes are made to imply that he is under pressure since he is considered a sort of miracle as a child of a two-headed Mamool Ja. He is the leader of their military as well. When Bakool Ja Ja is talking about him not being around at the beginning of the contest, Koana comments that he is not around because he is protecting their people or something. Now why they need him to lead an army of such a peaceful nation and why that army has been fighting is not explained.

Sphene and the Endless: Many of your issues tie into others including the use of the Scions and ignoring character development. For example, how is the WoL a mentor when they do no mentoring especially in the instance you list? Some have said "you listen to her" and "you affirm her choices". That sounds like a nanny or a "yes man", not a mentor.

The Scions - I do like the scions and don't think there is nowhere else to go with them. The issue is more that they were more prominent the last 2 expansions, but previous to ShB they weren't there all the time and they didn't feel "forced" into content. If they want to do a sort of reset, then they should do the same as in ARR, HW, and StB where maybe we don't see some scions for an expansion. It really felt like they tried to find ways to fit them in rather than using them in their best spot. For issues involving Alexandria and Zorall Ja's invasion, Cid and Nero are what I thought of first. So basically why does it always have to be the Scions brought in when we have many characters we have called on outside of the scions.

The other issue with the scions is just changing how they would act which they did in at least 2 or 3 instances. I think this goes to your point of things happening just because the writers wanted them to. Urianger just walked away from people potentially being killed after spending 2 expansions lecturing other's on saving the lives of others? Alisaie who is always rushing into a fight holds back the WoL at one point? And Y'shtola is staring at a potential portal into another shard and seems to be kind of meh about it? If they aren't going to remain true to these characters then I agree that they need to be retired and characters that have the traits they desire should be created.

It's way too early in the lifecycle to be deciding whether it's a good or bad expansion.

3.0 was great but Heavensward almost killed the game.
4.0 was mid but Stormblood was arguably the best expansion we've ever had.

Based on what the devs have said about the content that will come during the patch cycle, it sounds like Dawntrail will be a very solid expansion. Time will tell.

If it's biggest selling point, which is the story, is a trash then I'm afraid that by association, the good things in this expac will be on the crossfire aswell. We cant really blame people for regretting buying the expac when the biggest thing about new expacs in FFXIV is the story. They really do have something going I admit. The story IDEAS are fun and exciting, but they FELL REALLY REALLY REALLY SHORT on the execution of those ideas. Everything is so shallow compared to how nuanced everything had been written in the past.

That being said, the good things in this expac FOR ME is:
-The zones
-The music except for Smile
-The dungeons are pretty
-The fights are more interesting in this expac

Too bad it's connected to such a lackluster and shoddily written story.

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Originally Posted by Gortys

I'll just comment on some points:

Zoraal Ja: I think certain cut scenes are made to imply that he is under pressure since he is considered a sort of miracle as a child of a two-headed Mamool Ja. He is the leader of their military as well. When Bakool Ja Ja is talking about him not being around at the beginning of the contest, Koana comments that he is not around because he is protecting their people or something. Now why they need him to lead an army of such a peaceful nation and why that army has been fighting is not explained.

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Even without an active war, the people would still need protection from bandits, wild beasts, and other normal problems. We also saw at least a few groups that resent Galool Ja Ja's rule, so keeping them in line is also important. As the old saying goes, the price of peace is eternal vigilance.

Subjective and all, but when an expansion makes me want to take a break only a week after its release... I cannot, for myself, consider it a good expansion.

Of course patches may bring some absolutely incredible, mind blowing content and story (though I expect those things to be good at most). But. The patches are when? By the time the appropriate patches will have released, I'll have paid their price through subscription. I do still consider patches to be part of an expansion (because what else would they be), but nonetheless a huge chunk of the expansion is what we get on the first day of its release. That's when we get the biggest story chunk. That's when we get the biggest dungeons chunk. That's when we get the major system changes (like the graphics update, new races, new classes, etc, etc). In that sense, I have seen a relatively large part of what this expansion has to offer.

I am excited for the raids, I am especially excited for the new field operations. But the latter especially isn't coming any time soon. I don't even want to try and count how long we'll have to wait. Bozja released like a year after the expansion...

So sure, maybe in a year or two, once I finally see the entirety of the expansion, I will maybe change my mind for the better. For now, like I said, I'm just bored and burned out because of the MSQ. Thankfully another MMO currently has some fun stuff to do in preparation for their end of August expansion release, so I can have some variety. And then maybe I'll be back in November for 7.1.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

As much as I like to meme in the 'Wuk Lamat Bad' thread I do think this expansion will probably end up being like Stormblood where people warm up to it after a while.

The quality of the Post Launch content will also determine this.

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Stormblood didn't suffer from these same issues. Because the "Wuk" of that expansion was Lyse, who, honestly, was mostly harmless. We just hated her because she lost any character she had as Yda, and became a completely useless character. She didn't force herself into every single situation we were involved in. And we also had Hien on the other side, who was a fairly enjoyable guy to hang around with. The combat in SB was also miles above the combat in DT, because it hadn't yet become the soulless Job Design we have now. Like, don't get me wrong. I still hate Lyse, and that hasn't changed, but to claim SB needed "warmed up to" is a bit of a misleading way of looking at the problems of SB.

Otis was Otis' actual soul put into a mechanical body, while Sphene was an endless copy of the real Sphene's memories. Otis explains earlier that he would die if his body was destroyed.


The expansion wasn't terrible, the later half of the story was good, but the first half really sours the whole experience imo. Wuk Lamat being a massive Mary Sue with terrible voice acting definitely didn't help either. I think they can stand to learn a few things from this, and improve the writing going forward, seeing as the story is almost universally criticized for the same few things by both the English and Japanese player bases.


As long as they deliver good battle content though the story won't matter as much. I'm definitely liking what I see with these new dungeons and how they made them a bit more hectic and difficult. We'll have to see where things go. I'd like them to shake up the formula a little but I doubt that'll happen.

To respond:

MAMOOK
Yes.

Zoraal Ja
I think this would come down to his martial position, and more predominantly the fact he's essentially a 'miracle', which comes with a whole set of burdens on its own. I think maybe trying to prove worthy in his own way? I think this is what they were eluding to later in the story?

Sphene
Didn't like Sphene very much. Felt like the complete excessive opposite to Meteion, and it was far too soon to have this much of an imposed threat. Should have been more grounded in earth, and honestly this entire segment should have been an entire expansion on its own.

Scions
If there is no where left for these characters to go then they shouldn't have been included in the story. Scions have always been pivotal characters, and how they were handled was a disservice even greater than the staying-time. Their presence, in addition to ours only served to exacerbate the issues with Wuk Lamat. So many characters were put on the side for her to get very little development.

Krile and Erenville
They needed some more development, hence another reason why the whole latter half of the story should have been an expansion in itself.

Gulool Ja and Otis
Both of these characters needed more screen time. They spent a LOT of time trying to build Gulool Ja, but missed out on some important pieces. To only have other parts reiterated time-and-time-and time again. Yes, Wuk, we know your Papa is a great person.

Bakool Ja Ja
Is probably the best done character. His development was very straight to the point, it comes across as organic and didn't feel forced. e.g., putting Wuk on a boat or some other thing for the umpteenth time. If Wuk's development could even remotely mirror something of this or even Zoraal, then IMO, the expansion would have been a lot better.

The expansion had a good premise but failed really hard in execution of the story, and having an MC in Wuk is difficult. If you put everything into that one character then it's a single point of failure/determination for the expansion. This was my biggest problem. They pushed Wuk too much, and it meant that if you didn't like her then... this expansion was only going in 1 direction for the initial story

It had a couple pacing issues but I think overall it was good. Those people who are REFUSING to see there was any good in it can't seem to accept that others opinions can be different from theirs. For me it was better then Stormblood and ARR. It was no Shadowbringers, but I enjoyed it and look forward to doing it again on my alt.