Viper is not hard, and does not need simplification.

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Originally Posted by Router

It has the same APM as NIN, and NIN has more complex burst. Where's my NIN simplification?

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While I'm very happy with Viper being further simplified, the truth is that they're letting interns do the job design now

It is fun to play, it is fun to finally being busy and having to press a lot of buttons since every single other job has been oversimplified to the point of boredom. If some people think it's too busy, fine! play something else, they've literally made every single other job easy to play. Let us have fun with at least one job.

Viper is easier to play than Ninja

I think I know why the feedback on viper has been so polarized. It comes down to how comfortable a player is accepting UI assistance when playing a job.

You see this from the first moment you unlock it, the pop-up explanation doesn't attempt to explain the big picture logic of how the job works (mainly that you'll be alternating between options a lot to play into the dual blade theme). It simply tells you to follow the cues from your job gauge and hit the button that lights up.

When I first unlocked the job, I thought I was having a stroke. I'd be testing the same button sequence and different combo options would light up each time. Was it dynamically choosing based on buff timers? Was it just plain random like old dragoon? Remember the game doesn't explain anything. You have to examine the tooltips, which keep taking turns to disappear from your hotbars because they transform, to figure out there are 4 different kinds of similarly named venom buffs that the job wants you to cycle between.

Flanksting Strike Flanksbane Fang Hindsting Strike Hindsbane Fang, try saying that 10 times really fast lmao. I imagine if you had dyslexia you'd just shut down your pc at this point and call it a day.

But back to the UI, ultimately the job is designed on the assumption that you'll be relying on cues from there. If you just do what the game says and follow the lights, you'll certainly be able to play the job almost perfectly even without knowing anything. From that standpoint, the job is certainly 'easy'.

I don't consider that competence though, that's barely treading water to me. It means you'll be playing slowly and reactively, one gcd at a time, with very little situational awareness let alone when difficult mechanics are happening. Some people see no issue playing the game that way even if it means relying on other people solving mechanics, but to me that's unacceptable.

The moment you try and graduate from needing the UI as a crutch, the job actually takes a disproportionate amount of work to become comfortable with. I can see how other people would view the job as overly complex in that regard.

If you don’t like the changes when they come out.. Then don’t play it. Isn’t that the same argument people have that if it’s “too busy” or difficult to reach the ceiling of skill then those who can’t shouldn’t play it? Is it too hard to request a happy medium?

People like to complain just to complain. It’s annoying.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

If you don’t like the changes when they come out.. Then don’t play it.

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Yeah, I won't. And I also won't go back to my old job. I don't take well to being given something that I enjoy and then getting it taken away. I don't think it's exactly a rare sentiment.

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Isn’t that the same argument people have that if it’s “too busy” or difficult to reach the ceiling of skill then those who can’t shouldn’t play it? Is it too hard to request a happy medium?

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There is no happy medium. Any simplification of the job will turn it from ok to boring. Also you are implying that both sides of the debate have equal merit. They do not, because by all indications an overwhelming majority of players are against the changes.

There is a happy medium. People just are so inside themselves and so extreme one way or the other that it causes a rift. I like the job because I think it’s a nice aesthetic. If they change it somewhat, and we don’t know what changes they will make, I’ll still play it. It’s only a “large majority” because we see people complaining on the forums when we know most people aren’t even on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

It’s only a “large majority” because we see people complaining on the forums when we know most people aren’t even on the forums.

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And yet they decided those changes seemingly on the basis of a handful of complaints (which were too early after release to be well informed in any way), so evidently we need to make our voices heard. I don't care if it creates a rift in the community, or if it makes you unhappy, because quite frankly the purpose here is not to have a debate, it is to show the devs that their decision is hasty, misguided and based on insufficient data.

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Originally Posted by hunter2

Isn't busyness the whole point of the job? What identity does it have if not high apm? I've only seen praise for the apm amongst my friends so I'm baffled that they think this is an issue worth addressing.

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apparently not
it has the identity of dual-wielding swords and wearing leather (and we all know that glam is the real endgame)

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Originally Posted by Router

It has the same APM as NIN, and NIN has more complex burst. Where's my NIN simplification?

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ask yoshi p