Spoilers for 7.0 Alexandrian life style

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

Based on what you are saying, I believe you are under the mistaken impression that regulators destroy souls. They do not. A person wearing a regulator keeps the soul they started with and when they meet what would be an accidental death, the lifeforce out of a soul cell is used to revive them. So now they have both their soul and a drained soul inside them. Their memories are imprinted on top in order to maintain their personality as the dominant one. When someone dies of old age or illness wearing a regulator, then the souls they've used during their lifetime are then released to the aetherial sea and their soul is stored in the regulator to be cleaned and packaged into a soul cell.

So while it's delaying people's return to the aetherial sea it's not soul killing anyone or draining all life from the planet or anything. Because FF7 is very popular, people think this is a mako plotline, but it's not, which is why the characters didn't stop them from doing it. They find it distasteful and sacrilegious, but it's not actual a threat to the star. At least not from the information we've been given thus far.

The Endless was a different situation as what they needed to be maintained required people to die. And while they were able to coast on natural deaths for four centuries, they've reached a point where Sphene feels she must cause some deaths to get the corporeal aether she needs to sustain the Endless.

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Never said I thought they were destroying souls, but that they have to be getting the souls from somewhere as up to now no one has been able to make new souls. If a regulator is made it either has to have a preloaded soul on it or it must come from somewhere else. They weren't around until they "perfected" it when they preserved the original Sphene's memories or there abouts as prior to that they used the suits Otis was placed in. People can bank extra souls if they do good enough work. So if they're not creating new souls and aren't destroying them except for maybe what Zoraal Ja did or being used to power Living Memory then where are they coming from? Also how I took it is even after a person actually dies while wearing one even their soul goes to get cleaned and stored to get banked by someone else at another time. The only thing released from the cycle being their memories. And when they 1st started using them again assuming that a regulator is made and given a soul before use where would they be getting these souls? If they're not preloaded with a soul then yikes.

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Originally Posted by Lyth;6576642
[I

'II: Separation:
Mixed aether is put through the aetheric separator and divided into its soul and memory components. Soul aether is then conveyed to upper Origenics for further processing, and memory aether to the Meso Terminal (route and location classified). Unless expressly specified, the memories of fiends are discarded.'[/I]

You'll recall that the Meso Terminal is the central unit of Living Memory, where Sphene's memory was stored.

'III: Purification:
Separated souls undergo through cleansing for the removal of residual memories. The purifying light is harmful to organic beings, so utmost care must be taken during the procedure. Even the slightest contamination can lead to memory and personality disorders within the user. As such, each and every soul must be cleared using the precision detector. Having completed the aforementioned processes, a soul may be finally be made available to the people of Alexandria. Your efforts are essential for the functioning of our nation, and we thank you for undertaking you duties with diligence.'

You have the modern day citizens of Alexandria, who are protected from premature death by means of their regulators. When they eventually perish, the memories that were inscribed on their souls are stored in Living Memory endlessly, sustained by the aether of newly harvested souls. As the Meso Terminal stores more and more memories as Endless, it needs a steady influx of aether from harvested souls to keep running. That's why it wasn't sustainable.

Also worth noting that using feral souls comes with problems.

Experiment log 216. Subject: Ambrose
Experiment sees a soulless body infused with multiple souls, including those of beasts, via a prototype multi-regulator. Subject currently behaves within the parameters of a living person, but displays advanced symptoms of personality breakdown and destructive tendancies. This is all but certainly due to an overdominance of feral souls. Yet while the subject possesses phenomenal strength, it cannot be reliably controlled, rendering it unfit for purpose. Future experiments must focus on imposing loyalty and obedience.'

The breakdown resulting from utilizing feral souls being referred to here is probably Psychonekrosis. The fact that the acquisition of a strong soul could potentially stabilize the aether of someone undergoing psychonekrosis makes me wonder if this is an aetheric corruption phenomenon, similar to how Ardbert stabilized our soul in Shadowbringers.

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Psychonekrosis does sound very much as to what was happening to us prior to rejoining with Ardbert. I also feel it's not sustainable due to the ability to bank souls. Even before Zoraal ja stole and used up a lot of souls they were in short supply. And afterwards if you talk to one of the workers in the government sector they say that the doling out of souls has backed up a lot due to the attack.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Never said I thought they were destroying souls, but that they have to be getting the souls from somewhere as up to now no one has been able to make new souls. If a regulator is made it either has to have a preloaded soul on it or it must come from somewhere else. They weren't around until they "perfected" it when they preserved the original Sphene's memories or there abouts as prior to that they used the suits Otis was placed in. People can bank extra souls if they do good enough work. So if they're not creating new souls and aren't destroying them except for maybe what Zoraal Ja did or being used to power Living Memory then where are they coming from? Also how I took it is even after a person actually dies while wearing one even their soul goes to get cleaned and stored to get banked by someone else at another time. The only thing released from the cycle being their memories. And when they 1st started using them again assuming that a regulator is made and given a soul before use where would they be getting these souls? If they're not preloaded with a soul then yikes.

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The Alexandrians have had the ability to extract souls for four centuries. And keep in mind, they figured this out during a world war. A bunch of people would have been dying on both sides. Some time after that, they figure out the other stuff, regulators, Endless, robo Otis, etc. But the Storm Surge is a war that leaves them the last surviving civilization on their shard. At the very least the last survivors on their continent. So they would have the souls of all those dead in stock. We actually see the stock when Sphene is talking to Zoraal Ja, they have thousands of souls in storage.

I don't understand why you're insisting that the regulators have to come with a soul in them already. You put it on and you buy one. If you put it on and there are no souls in it, then you get all the memory wipes, but you don't get revived after you die, your soul gets stored inside. We actually meet a character with no spare souls, the Arcadion fighter that insults Sphene. He's proof that you can walk around with an empty regulator. I don't understand why you believe otherwise, which is what made me assume you believed the souls were being destroyed.

As for why the system is sustainable, the used souls are stuck in the person who used them until death, which is why regulators are required to keep that person's mind the dominant one. At death the used souls are released back into the aetherial sea, and the unused souls and the wearer's soul are sent to Origenics for processing.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Psychonekrosis does sound very much as to what was happening to us prior to rejoining with Ardbert. I also feel it's not sustainable due to the ability to bank souls. Even before Zoraal ja stole and used up a lot of souls they were in short supply. And afterwards if you talk to one of the workers in the government sector they say that the doling out of souls has backed up a lot due to the attack.

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Zoraal Ja not only used up a lot of the supply on himself, his attack on Everkeep meant that a lot of people burned through a lot of souls all at once which would up demand. So yes, due to his actions they are in a state of low supply and high demand, but that doesn't mean it's unsustainable. It means the prices of souls will go up dramatically, which will cause more people to die of accident increasing the supply (and yes, I just realized how dark that is). But it's a system any of them can choose to opt out of whenever they like. No one is forced to wear a regulator.

They state up front that it's not a sustainable system. That's why Sphene needed dimensional fusion.

'I want a world without suffering. A world where nothing is lost... Would that such a place existed. But the Endless only grow in number, and ever more life force is needed to sustain them. Within the barrier, we've managed to curb the cycle of rebirth these few hundred years. But we've reached the limit. That's why I looked to interdimensional fusion. To harvest what we needed from your world. From your people. And with the key, we will have it.'
- Sphene, Through the Gate of Gold, Lv.99.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

They state up front that it's not a sustainable system. That's why Sphene needed dimensional fusion.

'I want a world without suffering. A world where nothing is lost... Would that such a place existed. But the Endless only grow in number, and ever more life force is needed to sustain them. Within the barrier, we've managed to curb the cycle of rebirth these few hundred years. But we've reached the limit. That's why I looked to interdimensional fusion. To harvest what we needed from your world. From your people. And with the key, we will have it.'
- Sphene, Through the Gate of Gold, Lv.99.

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Specifically it's the Endless making it unsustainable, though, rather than the regulators reviving people. That system's got completely separate problems and needs to be shut down for those reasons, but the unsustainability comes from the ever-increasing amount of souls needed to sustain Living Memory.

It's not clear if the soul cell system is actually entirely soul-neutral, or if it's a drop in the bucket in comparison.

I feel like we've seen this exact line of thinking across a few different advanced civilizations by now, between Amaurot, the Ea, and the Nibirun. But you're right, I've got a real good feeling about this one.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I feel like we've seen this exact line of thinking across a few different advanced civilizations by now, between Amaurot, the Ea, and the Nibirun. But you're right, I've got a real good feeling about this one.

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You're once again conflating the Endless with the use of regulators. Regulators don't extend lifespan, they prevent accidental death. And the Ancients did not do something to extend their life. They had a naturally long lifespan. The shorter lifespan of the sundered is the man-made alteration to the species.

Apparently a regulator has three functions:

1: Reviving a dead body. Every time one activates, we hear the same sound effect of a Raise spell. I'm making an assumption that it harbors a magic similar to a scroll of Reraise, which stops blood loss, repairs major wounds, and restarts cardiopulmonary functions; after all, it wouldn't be very effective to place a new soul into a broken body that will instantly die again.

2: Intercept the subject's soul before it can enter the Aetherial Sea and send it to Origenics for processing,

3: Inject new, blank soul into subject and format it with subject's memories and personality.

Okay, cool. So, why can't the regulator just temporarily hold the soul after it's been intercepted and put it back into the body after resuscitation? Or, perhaps it could extract the soul (important distinction) at the moment of death, then store it.

After all, the Garleans figured out how to extract souls, and it has been established that a person's soul (Zero's specifically) can be removed, placed in a bottle and carried to another shard, then reconstituted into a surrogate body with the same characteristics as the original, with no ill effects; and Eorzeans are obviously way behind the Alexandrians on a technological level. That would make all this soul processing unnecessary and would work outside the of range of the Everkeep's wi-fi signal.

Has this been explained already? Am I overthinking it? Also, my first thought after reading the information terminals in Origenics was, "someone needs to take a technical writing class."

I just want to point out that the Endless don't use souls. They use life force, an alternate translation of "corporeal aether".

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Originally Posted by Kennar

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You greatly overestimate the ability others have to manipulate souls. The Garlean method is difficult and unreliable, it also doesn't completely sever the tie between body and soul, the soul will constantly try to return to it's body and it will. Zero is part voidsent and so can move her soul more than non voidsent, even then she needed someone to provide a substitute body. The Scions went through something similar and it was a plot point that their "spiritual bodies" for lack of a better term, were becoming unstable and their souls would disipate should their physical bodies die.
So no the regulator can't just store the soul for a while, as when the body dies that link is severed and a soul will try to dissipate back to the aetherial sea. Without that link, all one could really do is either let nature take it's course, or propell it to Origenics beforehand, which is what they do anyway.