Viper is feels too busy because button erognomics is awful

It's actually because I have other melee jobs that Viper hotbars are so annoying to me. In order for Viper to make sense to me, slots that I universally use for things like True North on other jobs simply can't be used for that purpose because they need to efficiently line up with Twinfang/Twinblood.

I'll give an example, I place Sprint on a face button because generally, if you need to sprint then you *immediately* need to Sprint. Every single other melee can get away with 3 aoe "spam" buttons to make room for Sprint, but since Viper has equivalent aoe and ST attacks, I instead have to have a dedicated aoe hotbar to swap to with R1 where it replaces all of the ST attacks and on the original bar, I have Uncoiled Fury instead.

Sometimes a job has a bit of a different flow and needs a different layout to control that your usual cookie-cutters. Issue I've had with Ninja, Samurai, Astrologian, and Gunbreaker. But figuring out where to put the buttons comfortably as you learn the job, well that is part of the fun! Viper is unique and I soon realized my standard way out laying out abilities just didn't make sense. So I've put Vipers keys very close together (0 thru = layout), with single target on the left side and multitarget on the right. the more utility based skills being around the center.

Funny about that screenshot about me in the process of leveling Viper because originally I had no problem with Viper until I started glancing over the next abilities after learning Uncoiled Twinfang and realized my entire hotbar setup at the time would completely fallen apart at max level and would have functioned fine before then. I could literally have gotten to max level and then suddenly be forced to relearn an entirely new button layout. That doesn't happen on any other job (except maybe Black Mage).

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Originally Posted by ValStormbreaker

Here are my hotbars. I'm willing to bet you don't even have the W-Cross Hotbar enabled like this.

https://i.imgur.com/kOAUWpx.jpeg

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I pretty much put the single-target skills on the first hotbar and the AoE skills on the W, though Twinblood/fang had to go on the face buttons so they're easier to use while moving.

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Originally Posted by Atmaweapon510

Funny about that screenshot about me in the process of leveling Viper because originally I had no problem with Viper until I started glancing over the next abilities after learning Uncoiled Twinfang and realized my entire hotbar setup at the time would completely fallen apart at max level and would have functioned fine before then. I could literally have gotten to max level and then suddenly be forced to relearn an entirely new button layout. That doesn't happen on any other job (except maybe Black Mage).

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Honestly whenever I level a new job, I set up the hotbars with all my unlearned skills just to avoid this problem. If their positioning doesn't work, I can switch things around, but it's better than falling into relearning problem.

https://i.imgur.com/v6ukgIV.png

For mouse and keyboard I can hit all these keys on my left hand with 7-8 on my mouse buttons. 6 is my aoe hotbar swap macro. This is literally one of the easiest jobs I've ever had to setup and I still use the base hotbar keybinds. If it's this easy to setup for keyboard I imagine it's just as easy on controller.

Edit:
https://i.imgur.com/J6b4lsd.png
I had plenty of space to add a mouse over macro to target other players like my Aetherial Manipulation one. Fits similar to my reaper keybinds too as a bonus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atmaweapon510

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If you are using R1 hotbar swaps in combat with a melee job, you're definitely playing the job incorrectly.

R1 hotbar swaps cost time that are equivalent to oGCD weaving. You should always have all of your skills available and within easy reach at all times.

It is indeed the devs' fault for not making the W-Cross Hotbar the standard default controller players see, and the game not telling you about it. But if you take time to learn melee jobs seriously, and read guides online in an effort to learn, people have been talking about it for years and it's the most commonly used controller layout by JP players. It is a gripe that the game hides it from you and that it is not the default as it should be.

Here's some reading on the WXHB: https://www.akhmorning.com/resources...configurations

For all content past level 50, the full WXHB is what you should be using for everything. The skills should flow from right to left if you hotbar things properly. On Viper, you have two of the same kinds of moves, one set for single-target moves and another set for AoEs. On my setup, I have the single-target moves on my right side. Off-cooldown moves and weaves are basically a matter of easy motions with your thumbs, either left thumb > right thumb, or things like quarter-circle motion inputs to hit them easily by just gliding your thumb across a D-Pad, or simple-taps that are easy to pull off. Buttons are in places where there's ease of access because your thumbs are already right there, and you're primarily just using your triggers to toggle icons.

When you unlock more with your Viper, including things you don't have yet and can't test out at your current level, you'll see why my setup makes sense. Everything is very simple - and mirrored - motions that make a butterfly shape when you do your rotation. It makes it not only incredibly braindead to play at a raid level (a testament to how simplified this job is), but it physically feels good to play.

I am taking the time to teach it to my husband so he could do a recording and explanation. I know @!$% all about video editing and don't have the time to sit and do that with my day job and being a mother, but he works from home and knows how to do all that stuff so I'm asking him to put something together that might help people.

It is still important that you never, ever judge a job while you're in the process of leveling it. Regrettably, this is not a "learn as you level" kind of game. It's a "power-level to max and then figure out how it works" kind of game. There's plenty that might fill gameplay gaps that you're not aware of because you haven't unlocked certain traits yet that transform certain abilities into others under certain circumstances. This is why I chastised you for being level 85 and already recommending fixes. It is absolutely fair to say that's a premature assessment. We already saw on the JP forums many players walking back complaints by the time they hit level 90 and unlocked more. As a matter of principle, you should not be judging anything until you hit level cap and are using the WXHB on a controller with a proper hotbar setup. Under the circumstances you described, you cannot accurately assess the ergonomics of the job, and that's indeed a problem of your own making, not the job's fault.

Here's mine. I dupe the oGCDs frequently for ease of use depending on where I am in the rotation.

https://i.imgur.com/iGDmAFk.png

http://imgur.com/vkDPmNY.png

Hotbar filtering is on so R1 in combat only switches between bars 1 and 3. Bar 2 is on double tap and bar 8 is double squeeze in both directions.

https://i.imgur.com/Iw2s9Wl.png

https://i.imgur.com/uBnAnZ8.png

Heres the settings for the expanded controls and hotbar filtering.

https://i.imgur.com/LuI5Ybc.png

https://i.imgur.com/P3tB1Xf.png

I've bit the bullet and put the Twins on a separate crossbar from my weaponskills (I can still do a clockwise face button movement) and ended up having to keep finagling things so that Flanks are on the Right/ Left and Rears are on the Up/Down positions to keep things ordered. The Reawakening combo is also going to be a clockwise movement with S.Tail on the right D-pad and now my entire combo fits on the first two crossbars. Yes, the entire combo fits on the default crossbars.

I'm still annoyed because all my other melee jobs besides Dragoon have their unga-bunga spenders/combos on L2+R2 hold but for Viper I can only put Reawakening there as nothing else makes sense there for Viper or throws it out of sync with the other jobs. I would have loved to be able to go have been able to keep the Dreadwinder combo on one cross and to not have to swap to a different crossbar or fiddle with the pad so that I never have to let go of the analog stick.

Also, I only use R1 to swap between ST and AoE setups right now, there's very, very few cases that I'd actually need to use both aoe and st on one fight, and it's usually for specific phases. R1 usually goes for really convoluted macro setups like targeting a specific player with a card/dragonsight(RIP) and come with an /mlock auto swap back to the main hotbar.