Heck, I'd argue that 4.0 - despite not directly focusing on or revealing much about the Ascians - was still as dependent on their major machination as Heavensward or Shadowbringers. After the collapse of the Thordan effort and the loss of Lahabrea, pretty much everything that happened from there through Shadowbringers appeared to be Elidibus manipulating everything towards a situation where [Eorzea + The Eastern Alliance] vs. [The Garlean Empire] resulted in a level enough playing field that - during the ensuing war - he could play off both sides' desperation (Allag vs. Meracydia style) and thereby get Varis to embrace a strategem that would trigger a calamity. Without that happening in the background, the whole story has a lot less direction.
That said, after the end of the H&Z arc and the "all of humanity past and present united in concert against the Endsinger" story beat, I'm not terribly enthusiastic about immediately retreading ground with anything Ancient/Ascian. I mostly just hope whatever happens involving those facets of history feels like a natural progression from the current state. (Not that I would argue that the story should just never bring certain things up again - ontological inertia is a thing. I just hope it doesn't feel like a contrived development for the sake of doing it.)
Preparing to eat my mortarboard just in case, though.
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06-13-2024, 05:57 AMAnonymoose
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06-13-2024, 10:39 AMCleretic
After sleeping on it, I do think it's worth tempering expectations--both positive and negative--by remembering what a similar question got last time. Which was a goddamn LITANY of side content that, even if it wasn't every single potentially optional storyline, certainly read like it. And it turned out that, while some of those were actually MSQ-relevant (mainly Omega), a lot of them were just quests that triggered optional dialog at some point, or got quiet references. Similarly, they recommended we do Eden before 6.5, but it wasn't because Eden was actually plot-relevant, they just had an unlockable scene extension with Gaia.
So it's entirely possible that this isn't a big clue for a plot reveal, it's just a blink-and-you-miss-it cameo that they're trying to prime people to actually notice when it happens.
I still reserve right to be mad when that happens and grumble about being unable to leave the past in the past, but I feel like we're reflexively going 'oh the story's gonna be all Ancient stuff again' (either positively or negatively) when the truth is that it'll probably just be a one-quest nod that most of the audience would've completely missed without the hint. -
06-13-2024, 10:52 AMdiamondedge83Yes, that's my understanding as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkoAkure
Zodiark and the Rejoinings are only linked because Zodiark is the tool with which they plan to bring their friends back. The main goal was to get the world back to the way it was so that they could bring their people back whole. Zodiark being gone doesn't mean that the rejoinings can't happen, it just means their means of bringing their friends back is gone. I can't imagine that the convocation wouldn't have come up with some sort of plan B in 12,000 years.Quote:
The main reason for the Rejoinings was for Zodiark and also to restore the souls that made him up so there's no reason to even try Rejoinings anymore even if it's still actually possible since Rejoinings and Zodiark are completely linked.
Yes, that's what I'm saying.Quote:
There's no point left for the original Ascian plan and with the Unsundered completely and utterly dead and gone no new Ascians can be mantled. If Fandaniel is anything to go by, they're left up to their own devices and don't have to follow the original Ascian plan anymore anyway.
Agreed.Quote:
I don't want another plot revolving around a leaderless Ascian going rogue and doing their own thing for a 2nd time in a row, but I wouldn't mind if one just shows up as long as it doesn't take the spotlight.
I believe Cleretic has already pretty thoroughly debunked the hologram being an Ascian glyph. It looks more likely to be an advertisement for the Battle Arena. Though that in itself doesn't mean that the remaining Ascians aren't involved in Solution 9/Arcadion. I'm looking forward to finding out.Quote:
Which brings me back to my personal theory that Altima has something to do with Solution Nine or at least the Arcadion. A red hologram resembling a corrupted version of what their potential glyph would look like appears TWICE in the same piece of the Arcadion concept art. Yoshi-P saying "players might want to see if they can remember all the members of the Convocation… but saying more might be a spoiler." brings me back to that theory of mine and I feel like it lends it further credibility.
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06-13-2024, 12:15 PMMikkoAkureTo what end though?Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondedge83
Not sure it makes sense at all for leaderless sundered Ascians deciding to go through the effort of more rejoinings when it won’t magically bring back the Ancient civilization anymore.
I can see a lone Ascian or two showing up in a flashback or having a hand in something on the side that might lead to conflict, but I don’t believe we’ll ever see anything on the scale of rejoinings ever again.
“It sort of looks like a random obscure monster from a past FF game” doesn’t strike me as “pretty thoroughly debunked”. Especially since later information revealed to us suggests to me that Arcadion will consist of us fighting other fighters rather than random monsters and Yoshi-P hinting at the return of the Ascians.Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondedge83
I don’t believe that something the artist bothered putting in the main artwork for Arcadion twice (high up in the center background and also partially cut off at the bottom) is going to amount to just a filler boss based on a forgotten enemy from long ago and I don’t see why it would have its own stylized logo.
We already know that Solution Nine uses the Ancient script and they have anachronistic technology and a separate cultural origin from the rest of the region so Ascian involvement is at the very least highly plausible. So in the end, I don’t believe that a stylized glyph that looks an awful lot like that of a missing Ascian is that much of a stretch but I guess we’ll possibly find out in a couple of weeks. -
06-13-2024, 01:26 PMdiamondedge83You're assuming the remaining Ascians would do things that make sense, case in point: All of Fandaniel. I don't think it's likely in any case, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. Until we've seen them or have discovered their fate in one way or another, they are loose ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkoAkure
The main point was that you have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to convince yourself that it looks like an Ascian Glyph, when we've never seen any Ascian Glyphs that would have to be so ridiculously distorted to look like that. They've been ripped directly from FFXII. As for the other fighters you seem to be under the impression that they will all be player races when there are in fact a whole bunch of sentient races that look more like monsters than humans in FFXIV such as all of our Tribe buddies.Quote:
“It sort of looks like a random obscure monster from a past FF game” doesn’t strike me as “pretty thoroughly debunked”. Especially since later information revealed to us suggests to me that Arcadion will consist of us fighting other fighters rather than random monsters and Yoshi-P hinting at the return of the Ascians.
Okay, this one made me laugh, FFXIV is nothing if not chuck full of mini-bosses that are references to enemies from previous games, like what are you on about? lol.Quote:
I don’t believe that something the artist bothered putting in the main artwork for Arcadion twice (high up in the center background and also partially cut off at the bottom) is going to amount to just a filler boss based on a forgotten enemy from long ago and I don’t see why it would have its own stylized logo.
Agreed, it is very plausible, I don't think they'll make us wait too terribly long to find out about the remaining Ascians with the Zodiark/Hydaelyn being done; but you'd have to be squinting pretty darn hard to make that glyph look like one of the Ascian glyphs.Quote:
We already know that Solution Nine uses the Ancient script and they have anachronistic technology and a separate cultural origin from the rest of the region so Ascian involvement is at the very least highly plausible. So in the end, I don’t believe that a stylized glyph that looks an awful lot like that of a missing Ascian is that much of a stretch but I guess we’ll possibly find out in a couple of weeks.
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06-13-2024, 01:59 PMKageTokage
The JP description for the Archadion describes it as being "grander then reality" so I'm getting the impression this is going to be another Omega situation where we're fighting simulated enemies (Who are likely whatever semi-notable past FF boss they thought they could make a decent fight out of).
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06-13-2024, 02:49 PMClereticI never posted that claiming it 'debunked' anything, for the record (also it was someone else's observation that I got from Twitter), but more put it forward as an alternative theory that I personally find to be more compelling. The fact the sign looks like Armodullahan doesn't mean it can't be anything else, but I do think the fact it looks more like Armodullahan than Altima does put doubt to the theory that it's Altima. And I think the Altima theory's kinda run a bit far for something so thin in evidence, it's reached a point where for a lot of people it's the only theory they ever hear--for some people I suspect they actually think it's proven.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkoAkure
I especially think the Armodullahan theory's worth considering now that we know what the Arcadion is; it was hard to find a place to fit it into previous theories, but now that we know it's a big fancy fight club, it makes complete sense why it would have some random boss from FFIX with a neat design but no story importance; that also describes about half of the Omega raids, and the only Pandaemonium boss that didn't fill some story purpose was also in that category. (And incidentally, good job to Pandaemonium for its lack of filler bosses, I'd never thought about that before.) -
06-13-2024, 06:54 PMMikkoAkureAnother piece of my point is that this is a constructed work of fiction and to retread the same tired plot again and again would be boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondedge83
It doesn’t really take a giant leap of logic to make it look like an Ascian glyph. It has all the same elements of the bottom of Ultima’s symbol from FFXII flipped upside down like how all of the other Ascian glyphs are elements of upside down esper symbols. The only thing that makes it vague is the fact that instead of being perfect 1-1 it looks like it’s been run through a photocopier too many times.Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondedge83
A distorted symbol of an Ascian appearing over Solution Nine is a much more interesting theory than a distorted symbol meant to evoke a forgotten, skippable boss from a past game. And in my mind it’s more plausible too when we know there’s already an existing Ancient connection to the likely location of Arcadion. This art doesn’t exist in a vacuum and is meant to tease the playerbase about the upcoming raid. I don’t believe that something like this that they bothered to place in the background and then partially copy down below as well in the teaser artwork would amount to something trivial.
As for the enemies we’ll be facing, not once in my post did I say they’d be player races. This is a raid so the enemies we’ll be facing will be scaled up as always and have some sort of artistic flair, but I think the idea is that they’d be at least sentient beings and not outright monstrosities and my hope is that they don’t pull an Omega and just rip random mindless bosses from past FFs and paste them in with 0 context or point other than “this part of the raid is FFV bosses, do you remember this reference?”.
This was what the poster above was claiming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleretic
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06-14-2024, 01:48 AMIscahIn the context of a visually flashy "modern" city, there's nothing strange about seeing the same neon billboard image multiple times. It could just be the tournament logo or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkoAkure
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06-14-2024, 12:53 PMQuirkeeBee
Here's my crazy, cracked-pot thoughts:
What if we NEED the Ascians and their expertise to fight the next big, bad threat? What if we sought out existing Ascians, or MADE NEW ONES in order to figure out how to solve current issues?
And it gets even crazier....
What if we needed to regather the entire Convocation of the 14 in order to deal with whatever nightmare has been unleashed? Maybe focus on one or 2 Ascians per expac then spend time towards the end summoning the unsundered that we "killed." I would love to play out that scenario.