If the game is getting harder then we will need dps metres. Official ones.

I'm in the middle here:

- I obviously don't agree with parsing being used for bullying other people, however, that is the ONLY negative I can see coming from this (and I think this is based on fear some have because they know they aren't performing even to a bare minimum standard/previous experiences leading judgement).

- At the end of the day, parses are just numbers. They can't hurt you or attack you themselves. I personally find them to be a useful tool for improvement for myself and I know the same mentality is echoed amongst other people in this game (as has been seen on similar threads like this before). I think more people should use them honestly as a tool for self-growth (which might even alleviate fears of being attacked if you're performing well with practice).

In this game though, I've personally experienced DPS related hate maybe once or twice in 4 years (and we all know half the time someone is running a parser these days anyway for whatever reason). I also play games currently where they are built in (ToF as an example) and have not experienced any sort of hate, even when I'm doing a fraction of the DPS compared to whales. It's common culture in that game (and other games like PSO2) to carry newer players and to be understanding that everyone is going to play differently in public groups.

TL;DR: Parsers aren't the enemy and I wouldn't be opposed to them added here, people who are unable to separate casual public groups from pre-formed parse groups are the issue and systems should be set up to handle those people accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I don’t think we need DPS meters (though honestly if content is remotely being done console players will generally be parsed by a PC player so they aren’t really at that big of a disadvantage)

However this game is incredibly terrible at actually giving you somewhat decent feedback on how much DPS you are doing and if you are proportionately contributing based on your role

I think there is room to integrate systems to inform players when they are massively underperforming the average or simply just doing their rotation incorrectly

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Along these lines, I really wish they brought back the 2 rotations for tanks, or stances.

1 with higher enmity, but low dps and a second vice versa. So if the party had crappy dps, the tank could simply get less enmity and make up the difference…or if the dps players are great, the tank would be hard pressed to keep enmity. Unless they only did the enmity rotation.

The core rotations shouldn’t be giving so much enmity that the little meters we already have are meaningless.

In addition, they need to create a sandbag mob arena thing:
1) use the arena from the Ultros/Typhon trial.
2) make a generic boss that does generic attacks that can never kill the player, and the player can never kill it.
3) Use the check/x icons from Bardem’s meddle when mechanics are done correctly (avoided etc)
4) Have the fight reset/“end” whenever the player falls out of bounds.

+1 if you can just select any trial boss from older expansions to spar against.

DPS meters give personal and more objective feedback on how we are doing. It is easy to assume that we are doing great when our test isn't graded!

The meters do not ever need to be public. If you are a DPS, it lets you know if your rotation is incorrect or if your gear is outdated, etc. It makes you better. It hits home with exactly how much DPS you lose when you decide to interrupt a cast in order to move. A player is way more likely to look up a guide when they see a supposedly "weak" DPS job (or even the healer) blowing them out of the water! They would not have known this without the DPS meter. It is eye-opening.

DPS meters are especially nice for AST as you can see who should be getting buffs.

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Originally Posted by NYCLouisGamer

DPS meters give personal and more objective feedback on how we are doing. It is easy to assume that we are doing great when our test isn't graded!

The meters do not ever need to be public. If you are a DPS, it lets you know if your rotation is incorrect or if your gear is outdated, etc. It makes you better. It hits home with exactly how much DPS you lose when you decide to interrupt a cast in order to move. A player is way more likely to look up a guide when they see a supposedly "weak" DPS job (or even the healer) blowing them out of the water! They would not have known this without the DPS meter. It is eye-opening.

DPS meters are especially nice for AST as you can see who should be getting buffs.

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They don't by themselves though, without context numbers mean nothing.

ACT doesn't give you context. It only gives you numbers. You have to care enough to use fflogs to see context.

Most people don't. A parser wouldn't help them improve because a number is just a number
Also, if the meter is private, how would you see others dps numbers?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They don't by themselves though, without context numbers mean nothing.

ACT doesn't give you context. It only gives you numbers. You have to care enough to use fflogs to see context.

Most people don't. A parser wouldn't help them improve because a number is just a number
Also, if the meter is private, how would you see others dps numbers?

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I've definitely used a meter several years ago on a DPS class in another game, both for myself - to improve my rotation, to join the equivalent of FCs and to progress in various fights, and in the FCs that I was in It was used in a non-toxic way, although I've definitely seen it used in toxic ways as well to "name and shame", then blacklist people, since it's easy to just throw out numbers and leave out and context in a parser, as you say.

As long as it's displayed on-screen, I can think at least one easy work-around for the "private" meter, which means that parties could then ask for the "private" meter to be shared. I'm not saying that I see that necessarily as an issue, just pointing out that it's feasible. I do see that private meters would have advantages although the the game should have a good tutorial to introduce them, and explain why they are helpful. Add in some reward too otherwise a lot of sprouts likely would skip it.

Adding a DPS meter alone isn't going to coach people to do better, it offers no guidance to people who are lower on the scale. If you want to worry about actual player improvement you want more training and guidance, either through the game itself or through the community.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Maybe it just changed recently, because this is what I have been told consistently by people who tried the game. It's been meme'd about on youtube by all the people who came from WoW to this game as well.

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As someone who plays WoW currently and has over the years since I was 9 yeah no one cares unless you're in higher difficulty content, and a lot of the situations are rarely as one sided as people like to make them out to be. a lot of the Toxicness in WoW is more played up then it actually is, and a lot of people fall for it. People also have a bad habit of joining guilds and groups that are very upfront about using a meter and parsing high as a requirement and then when people can't keep up they feel slighted, and that happens more then a lot of these people are willing to admit. XIV is equally as toxic, it's just socially, not gameplay wise, tho it does happen here as well.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

In this game, you can improve your game simply by looking up how to do a rotation, how gearing works and optimal settings and keybinds, or by watching a PoV video of your job clearing a fight so you can see how they perform a rotation while doing it, and compare it to yourself.

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But all that being said we don't need them for any changes made. For example if we're going back to stormblood tiers of difficulty, people will just have to adjust and adapt. And if people need them that bad well, no one can say anything if people use them and keep it to themselves.

As per usual, it's a tool, and tools only provide info, they are harmless, it's the info and how it's used thats the issue.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Adding a DPS meter alone isn't going to coach people to do better, it offers no guidance to people who are lower on the scale. If you want to worry about actual player improvement you want more training and guidance, either through the game itself or through the community.

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Yeah thats the other thing, meters mean nothing if people don;t understand the baseline function of their job and rotation and what they need to be looking for.

Stone, Sky, Sea challenge as part of the Extreme/Savage unlock, good or bad?

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Originally Posted by Frogstone

If normal dungeon are going to get harder, then we will need dps metres.

It makes dps more accountable
It helps improve dps

Running dungeons, raids and trials is a team game. And needs coaching to win.

Sure their will be idiots who misuse the data. However that will be minuscule to the massive help it will be.

And metres can help tank and healers as well.

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You do not need DPS meters to clear anything.

All this would accomplish is turning the community incredibly toxic. People will absolutely use meters as an excuse to be assholes. I saw it all the time in WoW. I once saw someone get kicked out of WAILING CAVERNS because of their supposed poor DPS. If you think that attitude won't spread throughout this game's community like a virus until it's the norm, you're delusional.