Are We Really At The Point We Consider The Classic Relic Steps Engaging And "Fun"?

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Originally Posted by Threneras

Endwalker relic steps were a result of people complaining about the grind and now it's extremely successful because we can make our own fun by gathering tomes anyway we like while progressing the relic steps.

Endwalker made this relic extremely future proof compared to the older relics like gathering lights.

So even if you don't like endwalker solution.

Why do you ask for the old rather than asking for the new? Nobody likes a massive grind, ask for engaging content, not another snooze fest 24man grind. Do you REALLY want to do the neir raids 16 times? I doubt we do.

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The first two sentences are true. The Endwalker relic design gives us complete freedom in the content we choose to do for it and is more future-proofed than any other relic system we've seen so far.

However, I think part of the charm of previous systems is having some specific task you needed to do and where you had the choice to do that task or something else. You're carving out time just for that task. We can debate on exactly what the task should be. I'm in the camp that enjoy options and would like to see DoH, DoL, etc included again. I don't even mind a step or two tied to certain roulettes so you can passively collect things that way. But I think anyone who wants more than just tomes is really just asking to have to make that choice in the game. Because when we have to make the choice it makes it feel a bit more earned. We're deliberately giving up time to this task instead of what we normally do. When it's just tomes we're already collecting, you don't have that same sense of sacrificing time to do something special.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

However, I think part of the charm of previous systems is having some specific task you needed to do and where you had the choice to do that task or something else. You're carving out time just for that task. We can debate on exactly what the task should be. I'm in the camp that enjoy options and would like to see DoH, DoL, etc included again. I don't even mind a step or two tied to certain roulettes so you can passively collect things that way. But I think anyone who wants more than just tomes is really just asking to have to make that choice in the game. Because when we have to make the choice it makes it feel a bit more earned. We're deliberately giving up time to this task instead of what we normally do. When it's just tomes we're already collecting, you don't have that same sense of sacrificing time to do something special.

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Is it bad if I consider this a positive aspect of EW relics?

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Is it bad if I consider this a positive aspect of EW relics?

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That we can do what we want?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

That we can do what we want?

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That it's not a specifically carved out section of time task.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Is it bad if I consider this a positive aspect of EW relics?

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Then why not just drop the pretense and introduce a Causality Tomestone Weapon that gets updated with each patch? There's nothing "relic" about EW relics. No great journey or task you need to complete. Other than suffering through Manderville. Comedy weapons feel more epic, at least you have to actually work towards them.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Then why not just drop the pretense and introduce a Causality Tomestone Weapon that gets updated with each patch? There's nothing "relic" about EW relics. No great journey or task you need to complete. Other than suffering through Manderville. Comedy weapons feel more epic, at least you have to actually work towards them.

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If by "drop pretense" you mean not calling the a relic then sure. I don't care what they are called. I like that the are obtainable and future proofed without having to go into a specifically instanced "open world" map.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

That it's not a specifically carved out section of time task.

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No, not at all. The idea of it being tomes and something that you can get naturally through what you're already doing is definitely a positive for many people. That's why they're seeing an uptick in participation. But for others that's what devalues it. So it's a tricky balance they have to maintain. I think even just a special relic currency that you acquired could help. Then the relic still has that sense of something unique that I think is really all that a lot of those unhappy with tomes crave.

No I don't find the old relics steps particularly engaging past a half dozen or so. The new ones are actually pretty nice since it doesn't make me feel punished for doing things in game I want to when I'm trying to do a relic.

If I want to do roulettes when I log in, I feel like I'm not making progress on my relic since nothing contributed to it in the older relics. But doing 60 runs of Alexander is not fun to me as a single relic step, and neither is a dozen hours of fate spam in Bozja or eureka.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

No, not at all. The idea of it being tomes and something that you can get naturally through what you're already doing is definitely a positive for many people. That's why they're seeing an uptick in participation. But for others that's what devalues it. So it's a tricky balance they have to maintain. I think even just a special relic currency that you acquired could help. Then the relic still has that sense of something unique that I think is really all that a lot of those unhappy with tomes crave.

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Maybe... but it depends on how you acquire the currency. To me, the main thing with relics is that it took effort and commitment to complete. When you had your finished relic, you could look at it and think "I earned this". This current one is so devoid of any kind of sense of accomplishment, it's almost funny.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

No, not at all. The idea of it being tomes and something that you can get naturally through what you're already doing is definitely a positive for many people. That's why they're seeing an uptick in participation. But for others that's what devalues it. So it's a tricky balance they have to maintain. I think even just a special relic currency that you acquired could help. Then the relic still has that sense of something unique that I think is really all that a lot of those unhappy with tomes crave.

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I know you mean well by this, but reading that with other posts/comments in mind just makes me think that people want the relics to be more exclusive. I've had someone tell me in game "they aren't special because anyone can get them." I find them special BECAUSE everyone can. I think that's awesome.

A different currency is fine, but the accessibility is a major success as far as I'm concerned. But also the future proofing into poetics as well.