Paladin doesn't suck, 2 minute rotations just ruined combat

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

Some more than others. Redirect yourself to my first post in this topic, and read it until you get it

---

Theirs always going to be jobs more viable then others. Doesn't make it a bad thing, theirs no point in having different jobs in the first place if they don't have a different playstyle and/or offer something another job might lack, it's fine that not every job is "meta".

Every job was more then enough viable, during in shb, people generally liked it a lot more, a good game needs balance and some structure, but it also needs room for creative design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rithy255

Theirs always going to be jobs more viable then others. Doesn't make it a bad thing, theirs no point in having different jobs in the first place if they don't have a different playstyle and/or offer something another job might lack, it's fine that not every job is "meta".

---

All the Jobs already have different playstyles though, and that's even with the 2 minute meta

I don't see why having jobs build around 1 or 2 minutes rotations is more restrictive than being able to build them around 90s also (or having the bard being the only one to have a rotation of 80s which match nothing). Moreover when rotations are based on ogcd cd arbitrary put on 90s. Most of jobs changes to match the 2 minutes rotations were only touching theses 90s cd ogcd.

And the issue to the paladin is not not having a burst phase, but being this one switch from FoF to Requiescat + 8 magic gcd, while still having FoF. Leading to the Paladin to have something like a 40s burst phase and 20s filler, which would be odd even on ShB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

All the Jobs already have different playstyles though, and that's even with the 2 minute meta

---

Different rotation sure? but a lot of them just play as a build up burst, they have a very similar feel to each other a lot of the time.
This is dependent I guess as jobs like casters can feel plenty different and offer different things, but at the same time every job building up and bursting inside a 2minute window limits jobs to feel very boring, theirs no jobs that focus on dishing out sustained damage or having different small bursts it's all about fitting what you can under the 2 minutes for every job which limits job design

The Issue like I've said is that Balance was fine before in Shb, having raid buffs just be a "press every 2 minutes button" is really uninteresting design they might as well just remove raid buffs and allow more creative design.

the sake of "balance" Blindly only focusing on whats "balanced" instead of what's "enjoyable" will just lead to changes where we will see no meaningful difference between jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

All the Jobs already have different playstyles though, and that's even with the 2 minute meta

---

At an absolute base, a job can be either sustained DPS (defined as their DPS not fluctuating much throughout a fight) or a burst DPS (defined as having short periods where they deal massive damage to bring their average DPS up). The 2 minute meta absolutely solidifies the burst DPS as they are the ones who can capitalise on the extra buffs the most. This is shown in the fact PLD (Sustained DPS) is being changed to fit the burst meta, Monk was changed from a historically sustained DPS job to a burst DPS in EW specifically to fit the 2 minute meta they wanted to bring.

The whole point here is that you have killed off a whole branch of potential job design just from the 2 minute meta.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rithy255

Different rotation sure

---

Synonyms, like come on

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

Synonyms, like come on

---

A different rotation doesn't always lead to a different gameplay loop or feel.

Jobs can press different buttons in a slightly different order from each other, but in 2minutes meta they will feel pretty similar and achieve the same gameplay loop by bursting every 2 minutes, having a different rotation doesn't always change the loop or the gameplay enough to feel distinct.

Edit:
2 Minute jobs are fine and you can create multiple different designs inside of that but at a certain point you're restricting game design and now not allowing certain other jobs to function differently on a baseline level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mikey_R

At an absolute base, a job can be either sustained DPS (defined as their DPS not fluctuating much throughout a fight) or a burst DPS (defined as having short periods where they deal massive damage to bring their average DPS up). The 2 minute meta absolutely solidifies the burst DPS as they are the ones who can capitalise on the extra buffs the most. This is shown in the fact PLD (Sustained DPS) is being changed to fit the burst meta, Monk was changed from a historically sustained DPS job to a burst DPS in EW specifically to fit the 2 minute meta they wanted to bring.

The whole point here is that you have killed off a whole branch of potential job design just from the 2 minute meta.

---

Even just an expansion earlier Paladin did a lot better due to the simple fact that it's sustained dps benefitted from 1 minute, 90 seconds, 2 minute and 3 minute buff windows.

I'd be very interested to see how having to design every job so that it does a majority of it's damage in 15 seconds every 2 minutes isn't restrictive.

Don't engage the troll, he will always say the opposite of what you say. The ignore button is right here, he's been derailing threads for weeks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalaam

Don't engage the troll, he will always say the opposite of what you say. The ignore button is right here, he's been derailing threads for weeks.

---

But it's fun D: