Dear Paladins...

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Originally Posted by Alerith

This is...just....no. Just no.

As a tank you want every possible hate tool at your disposal. You're going to run into extremely well geared BLM's with double and triple melds, and even a few melee who have their stuff together. When that happens, you're going to need those hate tools.

Don't listen to what was quoted. The best PLD will always have anything and everything to be better at his/her job.

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Not to mention that stable and effective Enmity generation is based on spamming those abilities in conjuncture with Sentinel/WS + your other defensive abilities for maximum effectiveness, so the idea of giving up one of your best and reliable tools is ridiculous

Like I've said in other threads, ignore that guy!

Provoke is more enmity than flash too...

All I can say is PLD needs a little hate buff !! :P

5 monks with AF weapon/GC weapon and good gear then poor me without H.Darklight = Spamming of everything I can get just to hold hate long enough for move on miser ><.

Tis fun tho but I realise I need more double meld emnity gearz or H.Dark.

Anyways provoke is a very useful tool but I sometimes save it for when coincounter does animal instinct :).

My two cent

Any sustained DPS like Monk is always a pain in the ass. They just keep creeping up on your hate ceiling. Maybe its a trait of monks on my server, but they have no mind for their own survivability, they just keep whacking away.

LOL , yeah, IGNORE THAT GUY, you guys are rich, never said they shouldnt use provoke simply said a good tank should not NEED to rely on provoke to keep hate. Wich is the truth, and frankly usefull information in fights where hate reset accurs. Having voke and or flash available for those situations can and often saves the party. You are telling people to ignore me wich means you are apposed to the Idea, one can only assume. if thats that case, you perfer they use all their abilities on CC even if its not needed and IF a mage pulls hate on primal , well then hope for one of your abilities to be ready? NO NO, your right, Ignore me, I make no sense what soo ever. Not sure why SE even lets you guys post anymore, giving realy bad advice to players is an awsome way for one to drive players away from a game or at the very least confuse them and reduce there want to play.

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Originally Posted by MoarLegion

Provoke is more enmity than flash too...

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oh, you must be one of those guys with a hate meter that give a number value to enmity abilities, man sure wish I had one of those....

Or maybe you can post the patch note/ comment from developer that quotes "enmity from flash while on pld is weaker then that of provoke" your a genius , I also love how no one is telling people to "Ignore this guy" maybe because he agrees with em... guess just proves you can be total moron but as long as you agree with the masses your a "good tank"

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

oh, you must be one of those guys with a hate meter that give a number value to enmity abilities, man sure wish I had one of those....

Or maybe you can post the patch note/ comment from developer that quotes "enmity from flash while on pld is weaker then that of provoke" your a genius , I also love how no one is telling people to "Ignore this guy" maybe because he agrees with em... guess just proves you can be total moron but as long as you agree with the masses your a "good tank"

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Here ya go.

Taken straight from Kaeko's enmity testing:

http://hcd-1.imgbox.com/aayy8jDo.png

Flash: 363
Provoke: 568

So at one point at least Provoke did generate more Enmity than Flash.

Now some of these have changed since then (like the flat blade and skull sunder modifiers, which were mentioned in patches), but no further testing has been done afaik, and most values haven't changed. And here's a thread you might want to read: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ation%29/page1

While you're at it, check out worthless DEF becomes as mob levels are higher than yours:
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=317908

haha, this thread is epic win.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

Here ya go.

Taken straight from Kaeko's enmity testing:

http://hcd-1.imgbox.com/aayy8jDo.png

Flash: 363
Provoke: 568

So at one point at least Provoke did generate more Enmity than Flash.

Now some of these have changed since then (like the flat blade and skull sunder modifiers, which were mentioned in patches), but no further testing has been done afaik, and most values haven't changed. And here's a thread you might want to read: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ation%29/page1

While you're at it, check out worthless DEF becomes as mob levels are higher than yours:
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=317908

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I have seen the charts , but what i have never seen is the raw data, as far as the numbers you got for enmity, question 1 is on what job, voke on war is gona be stronger then pld and same can be said for flash on pld over war, second question is what program was used to accuratly guage these numbers, simply posting numbers and saying "heres your proof" is pointless. if that was the case then i could say

provoke = 3 hate

flash = 300 hate

and that would be suffice to prove your chart up there wrong, not saying its inaccurate, yet, but I would love to know what program was used to determin those numbers or if this guy is simply pulling numbers outa his ass because thats what he thinks each voke is worth....

also, if this was done prior to jobs, and judging by the fact that there are no jobs listed, i would guess it was. If it was done prior to jobs then , I would have to say that voke prolly did have a strong hate pull because you could equip mrds traits as well as their abilities. soo either way you proved nothing other then when faced with looking like an idiot you get desprate and post any nonsense hoping the oposition dosent know anybetter.

Again as for your hp vs def charts, you can post charts all day brother , they mean = squat, when i was tested by a pld who stacks hp , and has triple teir 4 melds on almost all their gear, they openly admited i took roughly 250 damage less per hit. they usually get hit for over 600, that, my friend, is over 30% damage mitigation, this I can prove/ simply meet me anywhere , in any fight and I will prove it, raw , unaltered, unbiased data.