Abyssos is fun for tanks because Warriors can't cheese it

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Not so sure about that.
It wasn't Holmgang cheese that made the game "unfun".
It's just that at some point it became stale, Holmgang just allowed more invuln cheese.

It's not very fun to kitchen sink your CDs on tank busters.
P8S is mostly about that, every tank buster must be kitchen sink except the last one.

WAR still remains strong defensively and PLD remains the tank with the worst defensives.

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I'd agree that is not fun to just kitchen sink CDs and that requires little to no mitigation planning, but I think you're missing the point of my post with that example, P8S phase 2 is not just kitchen sink, that's only on phase 1, for phase 2 depending on when you use your invuls you might be able to, but your co tank at some point can't do that, and that's where communicating with your healers becomes part of it, and that I think is fun.

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Originally Posted by AttilaHetzel

I'd agree that is not fun to just kitchen sink CDs and that requires little to no mitigation planning, but I think you're missing the point of my post with that example, P8S phase 2 is not just kitchen sink, that's only on phase 1, for phase 2 depending on when you use your invuls you might be able to, but your co tank at some point can't do that, and that's where communicating with your healers becomes part of it, and that I think is fun.

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The point was to answer to "Abyssos is fun for tanks".
P8SP2 was kitchen sink to me.

Except the first tank buster I invuln and the last where Nebula wasn't up, the rest was pretty much kitchen sink.
Moving Nebula around wouldn't make me gain an additional one.
The only extra planning I did were on the short cooldown, Reprisal and raid wide mitigation but that is not related to Holmgang or any invuln.

All invuln could cheese 2-3 Tank buster depending on content, WAR could cheese the same with an extra one.
Regardless of the type of invuln, no tank can cheese a double tank buster in Abyssos.

If anything, this tier lowered the value of all invuln. Since Holmgang had a lot of value, it dropped harder than the others.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

The point was to answer to "Abyssos is fun for tanks".
P8SP2 was kitchen sink to me.

Except the first tank buster I invuln and the last where Nebula wasn't up, the rest was pretty much kitchen sink.
Moving Nebula around wouldn't make me gain an additional one.
The only extra planning I did were on the short cooldown, Reprisal and raid wide mitigation but that is not related to Holmgang or any invuln.

All invuln could cheese 2-3 Tank buster depending on content, WAR could cheese the same with an extra one.
Regardless of the type of invuln, no tank can cheese a double tank buster in Abyssos.

If anything, this tier lowered the value of all invuln. Since Holmgang had a lot of value, it dropped harder than the others.

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And on the same note is that wars dmg at the start of this tier was utter garbage( and it’s still on the weaker side). The only fight In this tier we’re Drk has problems a bit is p5s and just because the buster is physical plus a dot. Like people meme dark mind but this raid tier it’s up for every buster and free 20 % mitigation on every hit.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

The point was to answer to "Abyssos is fun for tanks".
P8SP2 was kitchen sink to me.

Except the first tank buster I invuln and the last where Nebula wasn't up, the rest was pretty much kitchen sink.
Moving Nebula around wouldn't make me gain an additional one.
The only extra planning I did were on the short cooldown, Reprisal and raid wide mitigation but that is not related to Holmgang or any invuln.

All invuln could cheese 2-3 Tank buster depending on content, WAR could cheese the same with an extra one.
Regardless of the type of invuln, no tank can cheese a double tank buster in Abyssos.

If anything, this tier lowered the value of all invuln. Since Holmgang had a lot of value, it dropped harder than the others.

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Yeah, that's why I say I feel you're missing the point of my post, the fact that Holmgang dropped so hard, made the rest got to shine more in the off tank role, I'm not talking about invuls here, I'm talking about how the design of Warrior makes fights braindead unless they're forced out like Abyssos did, that's the tittle, yes, but the post applies to the whole game.

And WAR can invul 2 busters on phase 2 if I remember correctly, so yeah that'll make the other 2 just a kitchen sink, I did that as GNB with a DRK, and yeah you'll miss the 30% on one of them, the big difference yet again, is that warrior has a lot more in the form of equilibrium and depending on what the group agreed, shake it off before using that, the regen and heals that gives that much more sustain, and that's without accounting for what the healers will give (I wrote this taking into the obvious that this is using rampart and thrill with bloodwetting ofc).

I'm not really seeing how warrior made previous fights more braindead than literally every other tank. Oh wow Warrior could invuln both Demigod Double in P4S, as if that's so much more braindead than using Superbolide on the 1st and Hallowed on the 2nd, or Dark Knight being able to solo Heart Stake without even needing an invuln.
But I guess I also don't consider pressing provoke/shirk to be 200 iq peak tank gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I'm not really seeing how warrior made previous fights more braindead than literally every other tank. Oh wow Warrior could invuln both Demigod Double in P4S, as if that's so much more braindead than using Superbolide on the 1st and Hallowed on the 2nd, or Dark Knight being able to solo Heart Stake without even needing an invuln.
But I guess I also don't consider pressing provoke/shirk to be 200 iq peak tank gameplay.

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You gotta see past invuls, it's more about the whole mitigation and utility of the off tank aside from raid wides and spamming mitigations to the main tank, the fact that one tank doesn't even need healers for the most part is ridiculous

So you will have the same opinion on dark knight should everything next tier be physical?

I look forward to a tier adding stuns to every auto to make holy sheldon and camouflage lower value so I can hear your sole praise for that too.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

So you will have the same opinion on dark knight should everything next tier be physical?

I look forward to a tier adding stuns to every auto to make holy sheldon and camouflage lower value so I can hear your sole praise for that too.

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As if that would ever happen, the dev isn't dumb enough to make auto's mini stun you. Maybe for tankbuster, but PLD can just use Intervention and co-tank can use their mitigation on PLD which circumvents that. Plus no one ever accounts for camouflage extra parry rate. Even in DSR, where a tankbuster hits you for 250.000 damage, a GNB is still able to survive it while accounting for 0% parry rate.

All tanks can survive through solo condensed anyway, by just telling their co-tank to use their cooldown on them

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Originally Posted by fulminating

So you will have the same opinion on dark knight should everything next tier be physical?

I look forward to a tier adding stuns to every auto to make holy sheldon and camouflage lower value so I can hear your sole praise for that too.

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I look forward to you clearing p8s :) I'm not going to indulge this kind of conversation because you have nothing of value to say. Have a nice day though.

It’s pretty terrible design to specifically have the entire tier counter one specific tank’s kit.

Edit: well this doesn't make sense with your other post deleted