Endwalker MSQ gripe - *early spoilers*

The Alliance who come to aid Garlemald generally consists of people who accepts that Garlean people are also people who are in dire need, and wish no more harm that what they have already self-inflicted due to Zenos. The group are there to deal with the Telophoroi and offer aids, not to conquer the land. The group simply don't have the manpower to deal with more conflicts outside the Telophoroi.


The group can easily threaten Garlean people in distress to to accept the aid. Easy-peasy, but it would be considered as a political move by Garlean leaders who believe their country was forced to be in debt for later exploitation. Meanwhile, other civilians would think the Alliance had come to their land to occupy it and begun to take away their people. Such thoughts would make you the enemy and unified what left of Garlean people against you. They were desperate and clueless about what to do after their capital fell, and the presence of a "more visible enemy" would be disastrous to the Alliance's relief efforts, and making the dealing with the Telophoroi even harder.

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Originally Posted by Silica-chan

This is probably the only part of the EW Story where I wasn‘t happy how it played out. I completely agree that as soon as they started to get hostile we should have got the option to put them in their place. Not kill them, but making clear we ain‘t got time for their crap.

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Exactly ^^

And the fact that you can see it coming from a mile away makes the moment even more eye-rolling.

You're there on a diplomatic mission, and that means restraint, especially as the Alliance were trying to get the remnant Garlean authorities that escaped tempering by Anima on the Alliance's side. Hassling the 1st Legion would have solved absolutely nothing and only made an enemy out of them, which was the opposite of the whole point of the exercise. And yes, that meant swallowing your pride and keeping your weapon sheathed.

Also, another point is that the only thing Quintius and the 1st Legion had left was their stubborn pride. Further humiliating them would have only added salt in the wounds. So the Wol and the twins had to play along with Quintius in order to lean them over to accepting assistance from the Alliance with their pride intact. And as Lenneth said, they already know who you are, your lofty reputation as the Eikon Slayer and the destroyer of the XIVth Legion (among other things) proceeds you, so a show of might wouldn't do anything but merely confirm to them that you're just a mindless Alliance thug.

Discretion really is the better part of valour in this instance.

hostages are a standard diplomatic tool often used as a means to ensure "trust" of the other side as it were. especially if the other side has an advantage, like say... the WoL.

WE already knew their situation, given untold years of war with Eorzea, boundless propaganda etc.. our intentions were much less clear so "hostages" make perfect sense

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Originally Posted by Rhaggnos

OP Post

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To those people, we're savage beings who would kill them on the spot. And out of all the barbarians out there, we're freaking Attila. And if you notice, they don't harm us. There's little point in that. Because to them, we're such a monster that if they so much as even try to look funny at us, we bash their faces in. They're not going to risk that, so they take it out on the weaker ones. Use THEM as leverage; as strong as they are, they're not immune to shock collars.

1 - The Garleans are a race that has always known persecution. They hid in Goug, but that didn't work because the people of Ivalice weren't all that fond of them, and the only place they managed to hold any sway was in Ilsabard. Then when they found out the potential of Ceruleum, they were like "See? We can do stuff, we can be great without using aether! Man, screw those aether-wielding jerks!". In comes Emet-Solus, lying his arse off and being like "I saw what the aether-wielders did, they tore an entire land apart! Death to all of them!" and it became their culture. They have had zero reasons to question it, as every time they tried, they were either looked down upon or were met with violence. And now that they're at open war against us, any hostility we show only makes them go "See?? I was right in not trusting you!!". They really have no idea that they're making it worse. That they live a lie. They have no idea that their culture is the problem, because to them, other people have a problem against them and kill them without even trying to speak to them.

2 - We can literally steamroll them if we want to. We just won't because that honestly could endanger the Leveilleurs, but it just will serve no purpose. "Know your place", yeah well, you don't know yours either. If you have any fat chance of saving any of the already-terrified Garleans, you NEED Garleans to help. Remember that just before you meet Jullus and Quintus, you find two sisters who absolutely do not trust you and end up dying because of it? And it's thanks to Jullus and the others actually realizing the Leveilleur kids were open and fine with them that they slowly agreed to cooperate.

So based on that, we leave the diplomatic easing to Alphinaud and Alisaie, and hope that by actually being around them and helping them out, they lighten up about having the literal devil (us) near them. Their animosity is a mix of pride and fear, both of which slowly wear off. And keep in mind that this happened in real life as well, and currently is.

...idk if I'm allowed to mention this, but basically think of those moments earlier in the year when "certain soldiers" were captured, fed and their families were contacted? The question of propaganda aside, not much happened to them allegedly, they were willing to deport them back. It's the same thing. You don't treat people indocrinated into hating you like crap, because you're just validating that hate. And you're there to save them.

I honestly don't think we'd have made the progress (with the Garleans) that we did if we'd just beaten the snot out of the Twin's captors.

Jullus would probably never have trusted us and the 1st Legion would have been far less inclined to come to our aid.

Those are all valid points, but s it really the case that there was absolutely no alternative end to that encounter that did not require complete submission?

For isntance, immediately knock out the guard that tries to collar them, then promptly sheathe your weapon and make it clear that you are willing to cooperate and mean no harm, but will not tolerate blackmail.

Would a balanced approach really have been catastrophic?

It just seems *too* soft of a stance, especially considering their culture that values dominance and conquest.

Maybe I'm wrong, we'll see when I advance the plot a bit more perhaps.

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Originally Posted by Rhaggnos

Those are all valid points, but s it really the case that there was absolutely no alternative end to that encounter that did not require complete submission?

For isntance, immediately knock out the guard that tries to collar them, then promptly sheathe your weapon and make it clear that you are willing to cooperate and mean no harm, but will not tolerate blackmail.

Would a balanced approach really have been catastrophic?

It just seems *too* soft of a stance, especially considering their culture that values dominance and conquest.

Maybe I'm wrong, we'll see when I advance the plot a bit more perhaps.

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Another point to remember, though, is that they did submit to a degree.

So far as I recall, they outright said (though I don't recall the exact dialogue) that the reason they neither collared or attempted to take the Warrior of Light hostage was that they were all too aware that doing either would be suicide.

I understand all the reasoning, but I think it was a cheap way of trying to elicit emotion. Honestly, that one bit basically ruined the entire Garlean story for me because I just didn't care about them after that point. I have no sympathy for trying to use torture to keep someone in line, despite all their 'good' reasons. If the shock collars weren't THAT bad, then there is no reason to put them on to keep the WoL in check. If the WoL is THAT much of a fucking monster, then trying to antagonize them isn't exactly a good idea either. the whole thing just doesn't work.

Also, all the conversations in that area annoyed me, I was forced to just respond with stupid remarks to idiotic statements such as "why don't you let us conquer you so we can all live in peace?", it was just a mess imo.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I understand all the reasoning, but I think it was a cheap way of trying to elicit emotion. Honestly, that one bit basically ruined the entire Garlean story for me because I just didn't care about them after that point. I have no sympathy for trying to use torture to keep someone in line, despite all their 'good' reasons. If the shock collars weren't THAT bad, then there is no reason to put them on to keep the WoL in check. If the WoL is THAT much of a fucking monster, then trying to antagonize them isn't exactly a good idea either. the whole thing just doesn't work.

Also, all the conversations in that area annoyed me, I was forced to just respond with stupid remarks to idiotic statements such as "why don't you let us conquer you so we can all live in peace?", it was just a mess imo.

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Don't forget the EW role quest finale that was meant to tie up the Garlamand storyline. The ending was so half hearted it felt like I was watching the ending of the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Seriously, when I saw those Garleans shuffle away in the snow all I heard was the Indiana Jones theme play, similar to hearing it when church ended at the end of the movie, lol.