A video showcasing all of Warrior's removed job actions. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I miss cross skills.

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I really liked the idea of cross class skills, the execution however was an issue. Leveling in ARR and HW still took quite a bit, so having to level 5 different jobs just to play your main job the way it's supposed to be played was a pain.

Or in warrior's case to be able to tank in the first place.

Takes me back

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Or in warrior's case to be able to tank in the first place.

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Boy did I love the several times me & friends would random queue extreme trials back in the day for funsies and my co-tank would be a WAR or DRK without voke, thus dooming the run instantly before it even began.

"You gotta (provoke) when i get <x> stacks"
"What's provoke? / sorry, don't have it"

eats 30min penalty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I really liked the idea of cross class skills, the execution however was an issue. Leveling in ARR and HW still took quite a bit, so having to level 5 different jobs just to play your main job the way it's supposed to be played was a pain.

Or in warrior's case to be able to tank in the first place.

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I mean yeah the skills they picked were questionable. But I would have much rather seen the system reworked rather than removed entirely.
Dont know I'm just kinda in to the idea of being able to progress your job beyond just hitting lv 90.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I mean yeah the skills they picked were questionable. But I would have much rather seen the system reworked rather than removed entirely.
Dont know I'm just kinda in to the idea of being able to progress your job beyond just hitting lv 90.

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I agree with this very much. Our main progression currently is gearing different jobs and gearing is, let's be honest, really really boring.
Sure seeing numbers get bigger is nice but the gear does nothing interesting besides that.

So some horizontal progression would be great, Cross Class skills however were not that.
Half of the skills you could get were basically useless fluff and the other skills were mandatory for your job, so you weren't really progression your job beyond max level as much as you were making your job kit not feel incomplete.

I would've liked them to keep it as well but it would've needed a massive overhaul.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I agree with this very much. Our main progression currently is gearing different jobs and gearing is, let's be honest, really really boring.
Sure seeing numbers get bigger is nice but the gear does nothing interesting besides that.

So some horizontal progression would be great, Cross Class skills however were not that.
Half of the skills you could get were basically useless fluff and the other skills were mandatory for your job, so you weren't really progression your job beyond max level as much as you were making your job kit not feel incomplete.

I would've liked them to keep it as well but it would've needed a massive overhaul.

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You might be interested in EverQuest 2's Alternative Advancement system, which in large part provides what you seem to want.

Let me try to elaborate. In EQ2 you advanced along two tracks: your class level and your AA level.

Your class level gave you your core job skills and did what class level generally does in MMO (unlock new areas, questchains,... the works)
The AA "level" (which went much, *much* higher, but also slower and slower the higher you got) allowed players to customize existing class or tradecraft skills, or even gain additional skills. There were multiple AA trees, most of which, but not all, were non-linear (iow. it's a pick-and-choose deal, rather than a "skill tree"). Barring the tradecraft skills these were mostly job-specific too.

Now, some of these were practically mandatory for your class' role, depending on the content you wanted to tackle (eg. certain AA were basically required for raiding), but the general idea was to be able to tune your character in meaningful ways, and to make XP valuable to max level characters (note that EQ2 already had the ability for the player to "scale down" for lower level content, so encouraging running old content with newer players was rather important. Getting actually useful XP out of it was one such way)

The way AA XP worked was mostly by siphoning off of your "regular" XP (there were other, additional, ways, but those are not really relevant to the discussion): there was a slider where you could set how large of a percentage of XP gained went to AA. Thus it was possible to level really fast, but have barely any AA, or level really, really slowly (not sure if 0% class XP was possible) but have a large amount of AA skills unlocked.

It was an interesting system and I'm rather surprised something similar isn't used more often. Then again most MMOs have been doing away with situational utility skills, so there's that I guess...

Note that I am using the past tense above, despite EQ2 still being live, because I don't know the current state of the game after it got sold by SOE to some company that has a "portfolio" of old MMOs...

Man, Warrior was my first job when I started in HW.
It's really a job I don't miss at all. It went from a job with 1 Dopamine button and very annoying mechanics that depended on teammates (enmity&pacification) to a simply boring job with 1 dopamine button.


Stance dance, while a cool idea, was barely used at all.
I'm glad Fracture is gone, HW job design was "slap a 30s dot on all job, slap a damage buff to maintain on some and voila".

Those "Execution skills" were really weird too.
Boss under 20% HP? Spam that oGCD on cooldown! Don't care about the rotation you must fit as many as you can. The regen side was very difficult to hit.
I believe it was on MCH and BRD and cross classed on DRG and PLD?

In comparison, Sole Survivor from DRK was a cool skill, I wish they kept it while still granting HP if the target survived.

Reminds me back then Warriors spamming Butcher's Block and only BB as a base attack as tank, since the additional emnity was apparently tasty enough to do so.

Not gonna lie. I'd love to have Fracture back. A lot of people hated it due to how weak it was, but it had some pretty nice niche applications. At this point though, I just kinda wish WAR had some kind of dot at all.

I miss the free OCD 20% or less HP moves (like Mercy Stroke). Other classes had it too... Ninja, Bard. I think. I thought it was a good concept. However, we have so many buttons now for all jobs. So I see why it had to go.