After playing around with Paladin post hotfix

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Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

No, WAR can straight tank it due to massive HP pool. even without an HP set a warrior will have enough hp to survive often, but with a double meld HP set +accessories and food im at 4800+ hp. save and alternate foresight and featherfoot for 100 ton swing and most of the time you dont ever get hit anyway. you could easily straight tank with war, but no reason to straight tank since its so easy to avoid 100 ton.

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yeah but if Foresight miss...... You need to hope for a Melded HP gear.. XD PLD take less damage but more difficult make hate on Coincounter..
before and after patch always tanking on position for more dps with my war, but with the nerf if you don't have at least 4600hp+ you're dead if you don't parry 100-swing o.o"

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Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

No, WAR can straight tank it due to massive HP pool. even without an HP set a warrior will have enough hp to survive often, but with a double meld HP set +accessories and food im at 4800+ hp. save and alternate foresight and featherfoot for 100 ton swing and most of the time you dont ever get hit anyway. you could easily straight tank with war, but no reason to straight tank since its so easy to avoid 100 ton.

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/face palm

1) parry is NOT 100% why people talk about it like it is , is beyond me.

2) two teir 4 hp materias is 130ish hp max, thats about 1/4 of a normal attack on a moderatly armored tank... very bad use of materia slots and stupid waist of gil

3) sure you can tank on your war , but your gona bring two healers for war where a pld would only need one, and all soo you can do sorry damage and feel good about it? /facepalm

the point is, with server lag , somtimes running from 100-tonze is not an option and tbh you can kill him just as fast without running anyways soo why would you want to? oh wait thats right, if you dont you will die, hmm glad I tank on pld then

1) I think they jus mean foresight, it's either near 100% or 100% activation on next swing on you, featherfoot is not as high of a chance to activate though.

2) One piece of gear with HP materia is not really worthwhile, but stacked on 4 pieces it will help you eat 100 tonnze much better than other stats. Really only need HP gear for coincounter if you're straigt tanking...

3) I've solo healed a war tank straight tanking coincounter that used HP gear, and had no problem doing so. War tank does not mean you need 2 healers lol.

Since this is about PLD and testing and such.
Would other PLD mind testing this out?

Spirits Within

Combo Action: Phalanx
Increased damage with greater current HP.

Was doing some testing based on the wording of this. Fighting mobs @ the entrance to Zaharak. Lvl 50's. (the puglists, can't remember their name atm)

I just run AF gear which nets me around 3300 HP. My Sprits Within damage is around 900-950 and crits for about 1200 (I'm using Ifrits Blade)

My LS mate has a PLD HP build, which is around 3800. Sprits Within hits normal around 1200. Not sure on Crit Damage. (Using a Cobalt Winglet)

Our STR and MND values are pretty close (my MND is actually higher cause of AF gear)

But I wondered if anyone else is running Melded HP gear for PLD that could test this as well.

test what? there's not enough info. How would I know if my STR, and MND as well as other stats are the same as yours (or not). Were you in a pt or solo? What mobs were you fighting? What level were they? Did you have any buffs? Was anything cast on the mobs? and how many times did you do this? (a larger sample yields more accurate data)

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

/face palm

1) parry is NOT 100% why people talk about it like it is , is beyond me.

2) two teir 4 hp materias is 130ish hp max, thats about 1/4 of a normal attack on a moderatly armored tank... very bad use of materia slots and stupid waist of gil

3) sure you can tank on your war , but your gona bring two healers for war where a pld would only need one, and all soo you can do sorry damage and feel good about it? /facepalm

the point is, with server lag , somtimes running from 100-tonze is not an option and tbh you can kill him just as fast without running anyways soo why would you want to? oh wait thats right, if you dont you will die, hmm glad I tank on pld then

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You can easily get 4500+ HP on WAR with a few pieces of single-meld gear, AF, and food. That is all that is necessary to survive 100 ton swing. Featherfoot and Foresight have a very high probability to block swing. That's why you get HP above 4500 in case it actually gets through. WAR also has Sentinel and Vengeance which are guaranteed methods of damage reduction.

4 defensive abilities to lessen the damage and enough max HP to survive 100-ton swing defenseless is actually safer than a PLD tank. Faster kill speed also means less chances for something to go wrong.

I'm pretty certain that PLD cannot break the 4500 HP barrier without double melded HP on every slot. Using full heavy darklight, double-meld HP shield, HP accessories, and food I only get about 4300 HP. This means that you must save Divine Veil or Sentinel for taking 100 ton swing to the face, which makes PLD even more reliant on dodging attacks than WAR.

Too many people underestimate WAR's ability to reduce damage. Parry occurs very often with the new Rampage. Almost all bosses are slow-hitters which make Featherfoot and Foresight insanely good. WHM cures and regens are so powerful that the extra damage mitigation over time PLD gets over WAR is usually unnecessary even with just 1 WHM.

And yes, I've done speed runs in AV as both PLD and WAR. I feel like WAR still has the edge but both jobs can easily manage it now.

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Originally Posted by kro

And yes, I've done speed runs in AV as both PLD and WAR. I feel like WAR still has the edge but both jobs can easily manage it now.

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Honestly, in terms of boss fights, both tanks can do it. I'm not really sure what the debate about dodging coincounter is for. its easy to do, it doesn't matter if you get hit by swipe on either class cus it won't kill you outright (so if you're lagging or slow or w/e that's irrelevant) and both classes can easily force themselves to survive a few swings should they loose focus or be animation locked.

I would say warrior has the advantage simply because the trash pulls are way easier on warrior. More aoe threat makes all those group kills safer, easier, and faster. It CAN be done on pld, its just EASIER on warrior. To say that the tanks are balanced, it should be more or less the same in terms of group difficulty on both classes. Just as the bosses themselves are now: both classes use different approaches and have different tools but they can both hold threat in high dps situations on bosses, though pld's initial threat still seems soft compared to warrior's.

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Originally Posted by kro

You can easily get 4500+ HP on WAR with a few pieces of single-meld gear, AF, and food. That is all that is necessary to survive 100 ton swing. Featherfoot and Foresight have a very high probability to block swing. That's why you get HP above 4500 in case it actually gets through. WAR also has Sentinel and Vengeance which are guaranteed methods of damage reduction.

4 defensive abilities to lessen the damage and enough max HP to survive 100-ton swing defenseless is actually safer than a PLD tank. Faster kill speed also means less chances for something to go wrong.

I'm pretty certain that PLD cannot break the 4500 HP barrier without double melded HP on every slot. Using full heavy darklight, double-meld HP shield, HP accessories, and food I only get about 4300 HP. This means that you must save Divine Veil or Sentinel for taking 100 ton swing to the face, which makes PLD even more reliant on dodging attacks than WAR.

Too many people underestimate WAR's ability to reduce damage. Parry occurs very often with the new Rampage. Almost all bosses are slow-hitters which make Featherfoot and Foresight insanely good. WHM cures and regens are so powerful that the extra damage mitigation over time PLD gets over WAR is usually unnecessary even with just 1 WHM.

And yes, I've done speed runs in AV as both PLD and WAR. I feel like WAR still has the edge but both jobs can easily manage it now.

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This

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

2) two teir 4 hp materias is 130ish hp max, thats about 1/4 of a normal attack on a moderatly armored tank... very bad use of materia slots and stupid waist of gil

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Didnt really spend hardly anything making HP set. Its called Spiritbond. Hardly a waste of materia slots its not hard to have multiple sets of gear for any occasion.

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

3) sure you can tank on your war , but your gona bring two healers for war where a pld would only need one, and all soo you can do sorry damage and feel good about it? /facepalm

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what is this i dont even

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

the point is, with server lag , somtimes running from 100-tonze is not an option and tbh you can kill him just as fast without running anyways soo why would you want to? oh wait thats right, if you dont you will die, hmm glad I tank on pld then

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I dont get this "server lag" that you speak of, its very obvious when he readies abilities and really dont have problems avoiding abilities like 100 ton swing. HP set is a safety net if all else fails and I eat a swing which is very rare.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

test what? there's not enough info. How would I know if my STR, and MND as well as other stats are the same as yours (or not). Were you in a pt or solo? What mobs were you fighting? What level were they? Did you have any buffs? Was anything cast on the mobs? and how many times did you do this? (a larger sample yields more accurate data)

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1) LVL 50 Pugilist Mob @ the First gate to Zaharak.
2) No Buffs - No food
3) Solo
4) Your stats VS my stats shouldn't matter too much. The comparison is only in HP - VS - HP to see what gives the best increase on Spirits Within. If at all. (i.e. 3000HP on PLD vs 3600HP on PLD)
5) You will need to try and keep your HP full though, which is easy with Aegis Boon as blocked damage is less than the HP you recover from the skill.

Not this shit again.

Paladin still sucks.