People misunderstanding of MCH and what it actually needs

I think if MCH gets reworked it's just going to be homogenized to the PvP playstyle which in actuality is just going to play like Bard and become very very basic. If there is a ping issue the solution I can see them looking at is to remove Hypercharge.

Primarily because right now the devs feel that every class needs a Fell Cleave phase.

There is a weird habit of way overdoing it when correcting relatively small problems.

I honestly really enjoyed Stormblood Machinist and found it really satisfying to execute, but it just felt like an impractical headache to main because of the bizarro "psychic Flamethrower tick prediction" required to play it effectively.

Slinging the turret back down in combat was actually fun for me. I just liked watching it happen each time.

And yeah, all the utility tools felt good to have.

All they really needed to do was modify the bizarre Flamethrower Overheat entry, and delete the strange 10s window without Gauss Barrel which felt pointless and gross.

It was good, it just needed the rough edges fixed.

Instead they dropped a nuke on it and replaced it with something superficially-amusing, but way less fun or satisfying. At least, in my opinion.

You kind of see the same story with EW Summoner: all it needed was some jank corrected with stuff like Phoenix's clipping, Egi lagginess, etc. Instead they blew it up and restarted with something cruder and less satisfying.

My personal take is that MCH could have a dps boost, yeah... But not as it is. It should be the reward of a complex skill ceiling, and unlike BLM where the challenge is the encounter itself, the challenge should be a complex rotation, branching combos, things to watch for, etc.

But yeah, I also agree that it needs personal utillity. Literally every other job has, even the "selfish" ones. BLM again, got a beefy shield, got aetherial manipulation always usable, for example.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

My personal take is that MCH could have a dps boost, yeah... But not as it is. It should be the reward of a complex skill ceiling, and unlike BLM where the challenge is the encounter itself, the challenge should be a complex rotation, branching combos, things to watch for, etc.

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On paper yes, but think about it. What jobs are actually hard?
Only BLM is hard and it's far from being overly complex.

MCH has a problem that its rotation is not engaging and has too much automated tools.
Wildfire is just empowered Hypercharge, as long as you use Hypercharge correctly you can't miss Wildfire.
Automaton Queen is fully automated, the only thing you do is summoning it.

MCH doesn't exactly lack difficulty, but it definitely lacks interactions as the rotation plays by itself.
It's also the case for other jobs like Samurai, other than collecting stickers and spending them, you'll never miss your rotation.

The complexity and DPS relationship is already flawed from the start when you have jobs like SMN. Otherwise it should be the lowest DPS job.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

On paper yes, but think about it. What jobs are actually hard?
Only BLM is hard and it's far from being overly complex.

MCH has a problem that its rotation is not engaging and has too much automated tools.
Wildfire is just empowered Hypercharge, as long as you use Hypercharge correctly you can't miss Wildfire.
Automaton Queen is fully automated, the only thing you do is summoning it.

MCH doesn't exactly lack difficulty, but it definitely lacks interactions as the rotation plays by itself.
It's also the case for other jobs like Samurai, other than collecting stickers and spending them, you'll never miss your rotation.

The complexity and DPS relationship is already flawed from the start when you have jobs like SMN. Otherwise it should be the lowest DPS job.

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It also depends on how hard you're talking to... To me, for example, MNK is hard because you have 2 timers to keep track of, and the branching combo, as well as the cooldowns and the correct blitz usage. I can't say that current MCH is on the same level at all; that's the kind of difficulty I'm referring to. Even with muscle memory, I still need to be attentive on MNK not to let anything fall off.

They could just make the tools interact with other actions, or give a proper alternative heated rotation instead of heat blast x5... They could add more micromanagement to the Queen now that pets can be a bit more responsive... They could add more heat micromanagement.

Somepoint here makes sense, but for some I'll have a hard time to agree with...


First of all, when you choose a class you'll have strength and weakness. For exemple like BLM, You hit like a freaking truck, BUT you have poor mobility overall (Yeah I know you have triple cast and thing like that, but compared to other, it's not like they have "Mobility") and you must place your leylines and stick in it, which restrain your movement even further.

Actually, the class who represent the "Mobility Tax" the most is the BLM, and it's a pretty good exemple.

Other "Tax" exist, and utility Tax is a things, but it has an other weight.

Samourai is an other exemple, and share this one with the BLM, as they have absolutely nothing for the team and are Selfish DPS. Absolutely no utility is given by these 2... And so do the MCH, nothing to give (Role action can't be taken into account because it's shared in the role, all other DPS will have it, and the 10% mitig is common to Ranged, can't be taken into account either)

The mobility of the Samourai isn't really beneath the MCH, with dash in and dash out, plus all the melee uptime strat... the only things that can slow the samourai is the 1.3 sec Midare Setsugekka and Ogi : Namikiri cast. but that's it, nothing comparable to a BLM.

With these we can already see that MCH can't be boosted DPS wise by the "Mobility Tax"... But with the "Utility Tax" it's a completely different story. Therefore, only two solution exist. Either boost MCH DPS by a a whooping 5% in order to close the gap significantly (A certain site give the best machinist on Hesperos II at 8k5 rDPS, while the bard jump at a whooping 9k4 (DPS Given calculated around 2k), and the best Danser at 8k9 (Dps give calculated around 1.5k) Or give strong utility tool that will allow the MCH to rivalise with his Bard/Dancer counterpart.

Dancer and Bard don't suffer from mobility at all, they have exactly the same mobility (If not even greater) than the MCH, along with strong utility (Offensive and Defensive) which the MCH clearly lack.

Taking this into account, people have little to zero reason to actually choose a Machinist over a Bard or Dancer who can boost the group far stronger than what a MCH can output...

So it gives somethings like this :

Mobility : DNC > BRD > MCH
Offensive Buff Potential : BRD > DNC > MCH
rDPS : BRD > DNC > MCH

If you take a look at numbers, Ranged DPS have great disparity between numbers.

For exemple, at rDPS Bard and Dancer outmatch the MCH by 1.5-2k DPS, which is enormous.
But in term of nDPS (Neutral DPS, no buff counted at all), MCH is stronger by 1.2K

(Number taken on the top classment player)

We can clearly see that the "Ceiling" of the MCH is significantly lower than the others and need to be boosted by at least 300 pts (and that would be a bare minimum).