Third party tools are a game design failing in a multi-platform game

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Originally Posted by Thorio

No matter how perfect a game may be people will always want 3rd party tools. I thought it was common sense.

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If plugins were able to everyone, it wouldn't really be a problem because then you'd just end up using them regardless of Square Enix not wanting you to do so. Alternatively they could provide a plugin framework for people to make their QoL UI changes with. The entire discussion also has to factor in texture/model swapping, tools like XIVAlex and the straight botting/cheating that's still present in this game. They added a new PvP mode and within a week people were openly distributing cheats via Discord. It's pretty absurd that you can cheat that easily in the one game mode where cheating becomes the most obvious.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

These are things that a game raking in 200 mill+ a year shouldn't be overlooking.

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I agree that there's many areas in which the game client entirely is sub-optimal considering the success of the game. Even beyond the UI, there's many technical areas that simply don't have the features they should have such as the terrible anti-aliasing options or the entire PS5 client performing like garbage when you considering the hardware it's running on. Many improvements to be made all around.

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Originally Posted by SwingLifeAway

The game literally has tight DPS checks in hard content. Parsers and loggers allow you to see where the problem is and address it. Do people use it in the way you describe? Yes, they certainly do. But that doesn't mean that it is all it is. Nuclear energy doesn't just level cities, it can also power them. Just matters how you wield it.

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Maybe they should take notes from World of Warcraft and provide an official combat logging function. Don't provide a built-in DPS meter, simply provide a function to save the combat log to a text file so users can analyse it afterwards. This is how Warcraft Logs works, you upload the generated log file and go from there. If people choose to take that analysis back into the game for abuse and harassment purposes, that can already be dealt with under the existing terms of service.

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Originally Posted by Johners

If people choose to take that analysis back into the game for abuse and harassment purposes, that can already be dealt with under the existing terms of service.

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You mean like was the status quo already for ACT before all this drama? The drawbacks of what you propose and a realtime DPS meter are the same, but for some reason realtime DPS meter is not okay? Why is that?

Also, wanting PC players to not be able to use plugins just because console players cannot is very much Crab Mentality. You can't have something just because I can't have something, even though you having it has no impact on me.

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Originally Posted by DezereDawn

Good thing that's getting a top to bottom rework in the next expansion eh?
also, while parsers aren't *TECHNICALLY* QOL, that's ignoring the other 90% of mods people use that are, basic shit like seeing what song is playing, actually usable weaving while not playing on extremely low latency, seeing debuff and buff timers etc are all shit the base game should be doing

this game's ui is disfunctional, slow, and overstylized just like WoW's, the only saving grace is that the hud can be customized, but that doesn't save the 80% of the ui that can't, and will remain inefficient until square decides to do something about it

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Millions of player's have no problem to play the game with the normal UI.
It works as intended and it includes all information's that you need to clear the hardest content.

You don't need to see your teammates cooldowns.
There is no need to see the dmg that anyone does.
And you don't need to see the name of the currently playing song.

Everything you need to see can be found in the UI.
Does it need improvements? Maybe, but that gives no one the right to complain about SE banning people for using any ingame 3rd tool.

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Originally Posted by SwingLifeAway

You mean like was the status quo already for ACT before all this drama? The drawbacks of what you propose and a realtime DPS meter are the same, but for some reason realtime DPS meter is not okay? Why is that?

Also, wanting PC players to not be able to use plugins just because console players cannot is very much Crab Mentality. You can't have something just because I can't have something, even though you having it has no impact on me.

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I don't see how it's grab mentality to address the fundamental game design for a cross-platform game such as FFXIV. This isn't PUBG, for example, is which it's the same game content with entirely separate versions for PC and console, it's one giant game and player base. The same servers, game client, game content and various other in-game mechanics are available equally to everyone with out-of-game tools being the game changer. You have this in some other cross-platform titles but there's also mechanisms in place to actually combat this also and they're largely successful.

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Originally Posted by Curisu

Everything you need to see can be found in the UI.
Does it need improvements? Maybe, but that gives no one the right to complain about SE banning people for using any ingame 3rd tool.

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You mean, banning people for using features that they will implement later?

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Originally Posted by Curisu

You don't need to see your teammates cooldowns.
There is no need to see the dmg that anyone does.
And you don't need to see the name of the currently playing song.

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Mhhhh, what someone needs or not it is very individual. :) I can imagine, that the very tiny cooldown numbers under the ability icons are too small for many people. :)


Cheers

Just because something works fine, doesn't mean it can't be improved.

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Originally Posted by Curisu

Millions of player's have no problem to play the game with the normal UI.

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Please show your statistics and where you took it from.

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Everything you need to see can be found in the UI.

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Then people wouldn't be using plugins if it would be true

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Does it need improvements? Maybe, but that gives no one the right to complain about SE banning people for using any ingame 3rd tool.

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No one is complaining about bans over 3rd party tool. People dislike the fact that SE is inconsistent with it and that their ToS is too vague and there's no clear state or enforcement.

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Originally Posted by Johners

I don't see how it's grab mentality to address the fundamental game design for a cross-platform game such as FFXIV. This isn't PUBG, for example, is which it's the same game content with entirely separate versions for PC and console, it's one giant game and player base. The same servers, game client, game content and various other in-game mechanics are available equally to everyone with out-of-game tools being the game changer. You have this in some other cross-platform titles but there's also mechanisms in place to actually combat this also and they're largely successful.

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You know what, you're right. We should also hard cap all PC players to 720p 30 FPS to make sure it's the same as other platforms, and all players are on equal footing. /s

Other people using UI mods and parsers does not affect you. If they use it to affect you, they should be banned, otherwise not. You literally just want to take something that people enjoy using away from them because some people cannot use it. It is nonsensical at best and malicious at worst.

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Originally Posted by Johners

If plugins were able to everyone, it wouldn't really be a problem because then you'd just end up using them regardless of Square Enix not wanting you to do so. Alternatively they could provide a plugin framework for people to make their QoL UI changes with. The entire discussion also has to factor in texture/model swapping, tools like XIVAlex and the straight botting/cheating that's still present in this game. They added a new PvP mode and within a week people were openly distributing cheats via Discord. It's pretty absurd that you can cheat that easily in the one game mode where cheating becomes the most obvious.

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Their mistake was enabling the use of plugins in the first place, this was bound to get out of control at some point. Unfortunately the few rotten apples spoil the bunch so either accept and move on or keep crying about it on the forums instead of playing the game.
Ultimately it's your choice.