you know what really grinds my gears? savage gear

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Originally Posted by Menriq

With the exception of the weapon, "average joe" can grind out tomestones and be the same gear level as Savage anyways. This doesn't even include the fact that the gear from Savage lasts a whole two patches (the patch it's released in, plus the odd numbered patch). I fail to understand why this is an issue.

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because there was a reason for tomestone gear (augmented mind you) to be on ilvl one of the best examples is BLM during the last savage tier of SHB where it was beneficial since the tomestone gear and the eden gear had different substats you could go depending on your build (SPS vs. crit) having two seperate sets of BiS allows for build flexibility for jobs that allow it (but with how pretty much everybody just wants det crit and DH nowadays that could prolly go away now as well)

also thats the problem it only lasts two patches it's immediately useless after new savage tier releases instead of it being useable/better for starting the grind for the new Bis which is how it should work in proper vertical progression

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Originally Posted by pikalovr

no you don't make it even with crafted gear thats still making grinding the set pointless (the only reason i brought it up was because unfortunately that'll prolly be hte route they take cause heaven forbid people be rewarded for effort). and i'm not even asking for it to be super powerful just like 5 ilvl above the crafted set. there's is absolutely no reason average joe here who spends 2mil gil on a complete crafted set. (like one maybe two weeks of any gil grinding or hell leves if they have a crafter/gatherer). should be at a HIGHER power level than the person who put in the time and effort to grind the previous savage tier. like i said it's fine that crafted gear is the minimum entry point, i'm not saying it shouldn't. but i am saying it's unfair for those of us who put in the time and effort to clear savage content that the gear we worked for is immediately made useless when it'd be the most beneficial for us to have it

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If the Previous savage tier's gear was better than the crafted gear and tome gear it would be hard to catch up or enter into raiding mid series. You'd see a lot of people who didn't quite make the cutoff for P1S-P4S give up and wait for the 7.0 savages or be fighting to catch up in loot, because they'd be at both an experience and gear disadvantage on the current tier compared to everyone else.
If they were to change it they'd probably need to tweak the way loot is distributed in savages as well, since it's possible to have an unlucky streak for up to 8 weeks with no drops on some of these fights before you even get a single piece of loot. The only thing that keeps it pretty fair is that the crafted gear and tome gear is good enough to beat the DPS checks and better than the previous tier so it's not worth stressing over if it takes a while to get.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

If the Previous savage tier's gear was better than the crafted gear and tome gear it would be hard to catch up or enter into raiding mid series. You'd see a lot of people who didn't quite make the cutoff for P1S-P4S give up and wait for the 7.0 savages or be fighting to catch up in loot, because they'd be at both an experience and gear disadvantage on the current tier compared to everyone else.
If they were to change it they'd probably need to tweak the way loot is distributed in savages as well, since it's possible to have an unlucky streak for up to 8 weeks with no drops on some of these fights before you even get a single piece of loot. The only thing that keeps it pretty fair is that the crafted gear and tome gear is good enough to beat the DPS checks and better than the previous tier so it's not worth stressing over if it takes a while to get.

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and why is that a bad thing exactly? please explain why letting the people who actually put int he time and effort should be forced to be on equal footing with somebosy who just joined? or people who put in no effort? you want to join in the savage tiers late you can still do that you're just not Bis is all you can still you know CLEAR with min ilvl required for entry. so do tell how people having a slight ilvl advantage going into the next tier is so detrimental to people who can still clear the content regardless. they just aren't rewarded for being lazy/being late to the party they will start of at minimum required to clear which is extremely fair. hell i was more than fine joining in savages halfway through it's life cycle and being behind ilvl wise cause i understand there's no reason why i should be on the same item level as somebody who has cleared all the content already multiple times if they're reclearing. i like the fact that they do have an avenue for minimum requirements i just don't see why peoples effort has to be wasted

also there's a reason the book system exists it is the pity mechanic for unlucky people

Crafted gear is far too good now considering the ease of obtaining it. It was fine when it took a considerable investment to make and was a sort of luxury that was only a little better than Normal mode, but nowadays it's almost cheaper than NQ leveling gear from a vendor.

Personally since they're adamant on keeping crafting extremely simple, I'd keep tome gear as it is, make current Savage gear the baseline for next tier, nerf the ilv on crafted so that it's 10 below Normal raid ilv and scrap augmented crafted.

We've got into a strange design where crafted gear has to be simple to make so that world first groups can make it day 1 and immediately hit the requirement for the 4th boss. Letting them simply use their previous tiers Savage gear and augmented tome set makes far more sense.

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Originally Posted by pikalovr

and why is that a bad thing exactly? please explain why letting the people who actually put int he time and effort should be forced to be on equal footing with somebosy who just joined? or people who put in no effort? you want to join in the savage tiers late you can still do that you're just not Bis is all you can still you know CLEAR with min ilvl required for entry. so do tell how people having a slight ilvl advantage going into the next tier is so detrimental to people who can still clear the content regardless. they just aren't rewarded for being lazy/being late to the party they will start of at minimum required to clear which is extremely fair. hell i was more than fine joining in savages halfway through it's life cycle and being behind ilvl wise cause i understand there's no reason why i should be on the same item level as somebody who has cleared all the content already multiple times if they're reclearing. i like the fact that they do have an avenue for minimum requirements i just don't see why peoples effort has to be wasted

also there's a reason the book system exists it is the pity mechanic for unlucky people

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It would create a balancing nightmare by giving players with higher skill higher numerical advantage. You'd essentially have to overtune everything and make it numerically impossible for some groups with low ilvl to beat it until they farm up previous savage tiers for weeks, or you undertune it so new players are able to beat it reasonably like they do now, and the higher end raiders are bored and breeze through everything with little care for DPS checks.
Everyone having even footing at the start makes it entirely fair and makes it easier to balance. The good groups push through but the other groups can still make progress without being gated by gear level.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It would create a balancing nightmare by giving players with higher skill higher numerical advantage. You'd essentially have to overtune everything and make it numerically impossible for some groups with low ilvl to beat it until they farm up previous savage tiers for weeks, or you undertune it so new players are able to beat it reasonably like they do now, and the higher end raiders are bored and breeze through everything with little care for DPS checks.
Everyone having even footing at the start makes it entirely fair and makes it easier to balance. The good groups push through but the other groups can still make progress without being gated by gear level.

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what are you smoking my guy? you still make the fight clearable by min ilvl requirement all that extra 5 ilvl really gets you is a faster clear speed even with full BiS setups and people speedrunning kills you still see a majority of mechanics for current savage (most of the time the only mechanics cut are those that would be at the end of the fight (enrage maybe a repeated mechanic or two) unless you can get phase skips which at most is prolly a mechanic or two as well)

also the fights are meant to be cleared with literally the least efficient comps they could throw together so what you're saying is that we should make every job deal the exact same damage so that way the fights the same speed for everyone?

it's baffling how you think a 5ilvl increase is make or break for balancing fights. if anything it would just allow the people who once again PUT IN THE TIME AND EFFORT to prog slightly faster thats it and your average joe doesn't care about being optimal they care for the clear. why would they care that mister hardcore player here is at a 5 ilvl above them if they get the clear anyways?

It just means all your progress gets reset each tier basically, that's the intention. Destiny has a similar model but it only feels really bad in this game because the gear you had can't be used for anything anymore, just glam. In destiny you can increase the ilevel of the gear you had and keep our same build but stuff like that wouldn't work here so rip.

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Originally Posted by Minarisweet

It just means all your progress gets reset each tier basically, that's the intention. Destiny has a similar model but it only feels really bad in this game because the gear you had can't be used for anything anymore, just glam. In destiny you can increase the ilevel of the gear you had and keep our same build but stuff like that wouldn't work here so rip.

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thats exactly the point in progression the gear you worked for should at minimum be usable for grinding the new best set or be slightly higher than whatever the other baseline set is since you put in the effort

Savage gear and i605 weapon is the entrance ticket to ultimate, and ultimately a lot of the pieces will remain BiS for DSR for the entire expansion save for a few parts that i605 future dungeon gear may drop with better stats.

i605 weapon will be BiS for DSR unless you clear and get the DSR weapon with the 3rd materia slot, because the higher gear will sync down to i605 w/o materia. At-least until relic so late in the expansion (if they allow customization of stats again). So that's basically almost 1.5 years of use of this gear if you do the ultimate. Aside from that savage is a 6-7 month shelf life, but if any intention of doing ultimate the gear is golden.

I don't have a problem with it. Everyone being on equal footing day 1 of a tier launch allows people to get into raiding more easily, which is good for the health of the community and the content.