WHM LB still charges too fast.

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Originally Posted by magzillas

At a 60s recharge, I think the LB would be perfectly fine if it had no stun at all.

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Then it'd just be "miracle of nature, laser beam the field, delete person with follow up afflatus/dash attack.

I still don't understand why some classes have just literally NO cc and WHM can just screw your teams entire day up with no punishment from range. Same for the AOE silence/bind from RDM. When shit like that is in the game I don't understand how they thought "but SGE gets a shield sometimes" is balanced.

Either way I don't understand WHM's design. It's at the point where I feel at this point unless I change to WHM I'll never get the heck out of platinum. I can't counter a stun aoe laser beam on my team literally every fight because you can't go for the Whm because the team will gank you but if you go for the whm by the time you've cleared out the mob they can stall/screw you with aoe laser death. Even 1v1 it's kinda nonsense.

It's like they had no idea that CC would be....you know....super effective. "It's okay WHM here's a instant cast no punishment 12k damage (now 10k) damage button that for SGE to replicate has to be melee range to do that will surely get them killed unless they play super defensively" seems super legit when I have zero ways to defend myself lol.

Outside of CC, I assume, WHM is only good for its LB and harassing enemies with the Kappa spell. Want to know how to beat the lb? Purify. It's as simple as that. Meanwhile you have MCH with the .50, SAM with an insta-kill, Ivuln tanks, SMN auto-turret, and DRG orbital strike. I get that 6.0+ is the death of whm being viable in pve, but having 1 useful spell in pvp is the only thing keeping it from becoming a bench warmer. Hell, it doesn't even have a useable healer spell.

If Purify was actually responsive then it could be a viable counterplay, but as things currently are you often end up dead by the time it actually triggers or the CC has already fallen off and it fails to trigger the CC immunity.

Also, WHM does not have only "one useful spell". Seraph Strike's defense buff helps a lot in the burst heavy PvP environment, Cure III is one of the only actual AoE heals in general, Aquaveil is extremely powerful for bailing out teammates who are being focused, and Afflatus Misery is still good for helping to get assists in spite of its damage nerf.

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Originally Posted by KapraGoatmog

Outside of CC, I assume, WHM is only good for its LB and harassing enemies with the Kappa spell. Want to know how to beat the lb? Purify. It's as simple as that. Meanwhile you have MCH with the .50, SAM with an insta-kill, Ivuln tanks, SMN auto-turret, and DRG orbital strike. I get that 6.0+ is the death of whm being viable in pve, but having 1 useful spell in pvp is the only thing keeping it from becoming a bench warmer. Hell, it doesn't even have a useable healer spell.

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Its not just the stun. Their LB also does a lot of damage, heals the team and everyone who gets hit by it takes 10% increased damage from the WHM. WHM does does a ton of damage outside of its LB with decent healing as well. They get the LB too frequently for how good it is. Also, purify is a trash CD. 30 seconds for only 5 seconds of immunity? Neat! Now I get to be silenced or polymorphed instead! Oh wait I can't purge poly because "reasons."

WHM is broken and needs to be nerfed into the ground.

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Originally Posted by KapraGoatmog

Outside of CC, I assume, WHM is only good for its LB and harassing enemies with the Kappa spell. Want to know how to beat the lb? Purify. It's as simple as that. Meanwhile you have MCH with the .50, SAM with an insta-kill, Ivuln tanks, SMN auto-turret, and DRG orbital strike. I get that 6.0+ is the death of whm being viable in pve, but having 1 useful spell in pvp is the only thing keeping it from becoming a bench warmer.

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Dying to DPS or LB from a dps makes sense. They can't use their LBs every 60s and turn the tide of a fight.

It's not just that WHM has cc on their LB, it's that they have a special cc that can't be purified on top of the purify issues already on top of the fact that these jobs don't exist in a vacuum.

As I've stated before, even if Purify DID work there are at least 7 different classes that make it irrelevant in 1v1, let alone 5v5. Several classes like WAR can just wait til their rend is back up in 15s because the cd on purify is 30 and just hit you with it anyways.

It's borderline griefing knowing that every single time you run into battle and see a WHM you're just going to get laserbeam'd and stunned at some point randomly without warning and it's not anywhere close to a rare occurence so it's basically a given that every 60s you are going to get hit.

"But stay away from the main crystal" I hear you say. I would love to except all they have to do is target the furthest person back and MAYBE turn a little to cleave the whole party.

"But use Purify!" I hear you retort. Well I would love to except Guard and Purify can be slammed repeatedly and not go off until it's very well too late. Combine that with the repeated silence from RDM/BRD stun from SAM/WAR/NIN and bind from AST and you're basically just waiting to die with nothing to do.

"Just look at their LB bar and adjust your positioning!" People say. I would love to except that means every 60s I have to essentially play on defense because I know it will be used on cooldown because there is zero punishment for doing so and zero reason not to.

Purify sucks and isn't the answer to anything. Not when they can zerg rush you like they do in this mode. CC needs to be nerfed or classes like SGE/GNB/DNC/BLM/etc might as well not exist. They need to either give those other classes more utility/CC to be competitive or change the way CC works.

And yes, before everyone points out there are some people who have gotten to crystal with the weakest classes. And Congrats to them for being lucky enough to be on teams that supported them and/or carried them. It doesn't change that when I'm playing SGE I have to do three times the work to stay alive and to support my team than WHM does, and that's not going into the disparity of other classes.

"But you can put an 8k shield on an ally" Neat that'll be gone in seconds because they only brought over barriers and none of SGE's passive mitigation potential. It also just stalls the inevitable.

SCH Adlo at least buffs dps and can nerf the enemy's dps, but as SGE you basically are forced to run in to almost certain death to hit your maximum kill potential and/or give up group utility to kardia yourself, leaving you with zero support skills for the party aside from an easily(and often) interruptible Pnuema. It's just...baffling.

SGE's LB CAN turn the tide but if the team has literally any synergy and is half awake they'll just delete the SGE or run into the circle to make it a meat blender anyways. You absolutely can carry/turn around a run with WHM LB, and can do it consistently and often. Very few other classes have that potential, and the other classes you mention here are ones that have to wait (usually) much longer to use their LB.

There's no excuse for a kit with as much utility as WHM has to be able to do what it does. Giving Temperance? Fine. Giving a stun + regen? Sure. But doing a 40yalm laser with stun + 18k damage in the middle of a group engagement where most likely they've already had to use the already useless purify at least once already? It does not require a lot of brainpower to see how ridiculously useful and op that is.

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Originally Posted by KapraGoatmog

Hell, it doesn't even have a useable healer spell.

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Now I'm convinced you're trolling because not only do they have cure 2 that comes up quite a lot, but they have a literal dash + protect + aoe heal(one of the only aoe heals mind you), Veil which can pop a 12k shield on anyone dealing with any CC (Which is mostlikely anyone in any given engagement), and their LB which is the point of this post which can pop regen on the entire party AND buff all of their damage + heals + defense.

Fontlines is really funny now, all WHM party and it turned into a waiting game on who will hit LBs faster

I've been playing mostly BRD, and the thing that frustrates me most about Purgation is its range. I wish I had a tool that could nuke and disable the enemy backline while standing in my own team's backline.

Getting my Purify stolen from 40 yalms is maddening sometimes; it's possible to play around, but it feels unfair for WHM to be able to restrict my movement so much while risking so little.

Honestly have to agree. Things start to get really cheesy when high tier teams start fight stalling for the whm lb...
I have no problem with the damage/heals/stun, game changing lbs are fine, but its sheer potency feels much more in line with a 120 cd.

Miracle of Nature being incurable isn't that big a deal imo. It adds an additional level of threat to a dive, gives you a defensive option for mitigating burst strats, and helps break up the potency of some jobs. I do think however that it should not be as spammable as it is now. Player ability timing should be rewarded, but with a 25 sec cd you can kinda just throw it out and get another before the fight ends. Id say 35 cd.

WHM LB does feel a little on the absurd side. The lowering of the CC down to 2 secs was a pretty strong nerf, but it still feels just a little powerful.

I know we are calling out WHM in relation to other Healer LB;s specifically, I would like to say I REALLY REALLY think people sleep on AST LB. It can be absolutely backbreaking used right.

AST's LB is strong, but the range is limited enough that you're very much at risk of people just killing you before you take advantage of it and they definitely will try if they're aware of how much burst the AST on their own can output. Incidentally, WHM LB is one of the things it combos best with as it cranks its potency up to a level where you can reasonably wipe an entire team between just the two of you and it keeps people off your back to boot.

SGE's LB is also strong...if your team actually stands in actually stand in it to force people to have to take the DoT.

SCH's is good in that it's an immediate benefit your team doesn't need to interact with, but it's strictly a defensive LB which limits its presence in some regards.