My Review of 6.1 Story Content

Just some thoughts in return.

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The last monarchy remaining in the world to my knowledge is Doma’s, everywhere else is just another democracy, apart from Gridania being ruled by its conjurers and Limsa being pirate land. Garlemald’s fate was little more than another attempt to preach some vague, cookie cutter dream of democracy onto us again like they did in Ishgard and Ala Mhigo. I suppose I can also expect Hien to abdicate his throne at some point as well, and for Alphinaud to run for office in his place. Goodness.

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True if one ignores Kugane, Thavnair, Dragon society, Idyllshire, the Viera of the Source and the First, the Pixies, pretty much every Tribe, Sui-no-Sato, I assume the Confederacy given their pirate group structure, the tribes of the Azim Steppe, the Redbills and whatever the fuck is going on with the Crystarium. Thats a lot of different societal structures. Not to mention of all the nations to become a democracy arguably the one with an already pre-existing Senate makes the most sense.

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I mentioned this before in a previous thread but if you are going to have a male character constantly be obsessed with the player character either give us the option to avoid his antics or at least let this obsession come from a character with a traditionally masculine look, without the memelike mannerisms. I would not care if someone like Aymeric flirted with my character for instance, or any of the other male characters in the game who look like men.

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I don't really see the issue with someone not traditionally masculine expressing admiration. But perhaps that's subjective.

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I would however strongly caution against using the meme/slice of life moments we’ve been seeing lately in the MSQ in the void, that stuff hardly has a place on the Source let alone the 13th.

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...31/143/3e3.jpg

Jk Jk

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Just some thoughts in return.



True if one ignores Kugane, Thavnair, Dragon society, Idyllshire, the Viera of the Source and the First, the Pixies, pretty much every Tribe, Sui-no-Sato, I assume the Confederacy given their pirate group structure, the tribes of the Azim Steppe, the Redbills and the Crystarium. Thats a lot of different societal structures. Not to mention of all the nations to become a democracy arguably the one with an already pre-existing Senate makes the most sense.



I don't really see the issue with someone not traditionally masculine expressing admiration. But perhaps that's subjective.

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The locations you mention are all ones I adore. Sadly the story has pivoted away from these locations (except in the case of the Confederacy and Thavnair presently, though apart from Vrtra there is very little of interest to me in the region). At the moment I feel refreshed now that I'm hyped for the void, and interested in learning more about the goings on there. Given the lack of interesting things left to do on the Source, I'll gladly step through the voidgate and see what's on the other side.

In the case of Garlemald, those of us who liked the concept of the Empire and ones similar to it were hoping for a better resolution. Thinking back to the often cited Archades, who ended up with Larsa as emperor, a benevolent figure who still loved and wanted the best for his country, someone to root for rather than just...such a lackluster finale here in FFXIV. Even a constitutional monarchy would be a vast improvement, a figurehead emperor is better than nothing at all if it must be the case.

I suppose it is a difference of perspective, I simply do not feel that G'raha Tia's actions are reciprocated and thus they come off as creepy and like an unwanted advance. At some point after enduring too much of that I'd rather just leave the situation or in this case, skip his dialogue and look away till someone else takes to the scene. It is ok to express admiration once, if not twice in the aftermath of a critical story moment. But this is excessive. He is more of a parody now than Princess Sarah in Stranger of Paradise, but without the self-aware storytelling that made her somewhat endearing.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The locations you mention are all ones I adore. Sadly the story has pivoted away from these locations (except in the case of the Confederacy and Thavnair presently, though apart from Vrtra there is very little of interest to me in the region). At the moment I feel refreshed now that I'm hyped for the void, and interested in learning more about the goings on there. Given the lack of interesting things left to do on the Source, I'll gladly step through the voidgate and see what's on the other side.

In the case of Garlemald, those of us who liked the concept of the Empire and ones similar to it were hoping for a better resolution. Thinking back to the often cited Archades, who ended up with Larsa as emperor, a benevolent figure who still loved and wanted the best for his country, someone to root for rather than just...such a lackluster finale here in FFXIV. Even a constitutional monarchy would be a vast improvement, a figurehead emperor is better than nothing at all if it must be the case.

I suppose it is a difference of perspective, I simply do not feel that G'raha Tia's actions are reciprocated and thus they come off as creepy and like an unwanted advance. At some point after enduring too much of that I'd rather just leave the situation or in this case, skip his dialogue and look away till someone else takes to the scene. It is ok to express admiration once, if not twice in the aftermath of a critical story moment. But this is excessive. He is more of a parody now than Princess Sarah in Stranger of Paradise, but without the self-aware storytelling that made her somewhat endearing.

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I've never seen such a crap take on a character in this game tbh. It's well known that we are his idol, his inspiration. And for years he's dreamed of questing by our side and he now gets to do so. It's cute honestly. I fail to see how he's a parody of any kind. He's not making a pass at you and if you feel he is that 100% a you problem. You talk like you're well verse but can't understand simple implications...

In terms of Garl speak for yourself not other people.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

It's well known that we are his idol, his inspiration. And for years he's dreamed of questing by our side and he now gets to do so. It's cute honestly. I fail to see how he's a parody of any kind. He's not making a pass at you and if you feel he is that 100% a you problem. You talk like you're well verse but can't understand simple implications...

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And we have given him a quest. The quest is now over. In comparison to the character I grew to respect during Shadowbringers, I do not appreciate the prioritization of G'raha Tia as a "cute" comic relief character given his most prominent role that he took on during Shadowbringers. The implication is that he wants to be near me. At all costs. I do not enjoy this, and I wish his behavior would stop and that he would act like a grown man.

You cannot hope to force characters such as him onto the player and not meet with some degree of resistance from those of us who are simply not interested in being obsessed over in this way. This is someone who has fallen from grace in my eyes, if he weren't acting so ridiculous then I may have been able to ignore his pushiness but this is becoming more of a nuisance each time it pops up.

If this game had a romance system then by all means let the fans of characters like him have their fill of him over there, and leave this behavior outside of the main story. Extensive resources are likely poured into animating his eyes and tail-resources I would rather see spent on animating more battle scenes. Action. Not slice of life content. Or better yet, pour those resources into fixing whatever on earth went wrong with Hrothgar, because the 3d modelers should have absolutely prioritized fixing those player models than playing around with the animations of G'raha Tia's face and tail.

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

I agree somewhat with your sentiment regarding G'raha, he feels like a bit much at times as someone who does not "ship" my WoL with him, but you lost me a bit saying it would be okay if it was coming from a more traditionally masculine character because I just don't see what that has to do with it.

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His appearance combined with his mannerisms and behavior make for a character I just don't feel comfortable being around or speaking to. Not even Haurchefaunt was as bad as this. It's a feeling of dissonance, things just don't match up in the picture. I do not think it is unreasonable to prefer, if an npc must be so obsessed with my character, that they at least conform to some standards of attractiveness in line with their gender.

I can make a case for characters like Aymeric and Hien, different as they are in their physical appearances they both present themselves as heroes with admirable personalities and physical qualities that vary considerably, but check off points in what one might find attractive in a male. This does not hold for G'raha Tia. He dresses like...a scholar? I'm not sure how else to describe his outfit but it isn't anything particularly striking, and his hair has never been great but after he joined the scions I cannot unsee the resemblance between his hair and that of Lucy's from the Chronicles of Narnia. It's just so strange.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The locations you mention are all ones I adore. Sadly the story has pivoted away from these locations (except in the case of the Confederacy and Thavnair presently, though apart from Vrtra there is very little of interest to me in the region). At the moment I feel refreshed now that I'm hyped for the void, and interested in learning more about the goings on there. Given the lack of interesting things left to do on the Source, I'll gladly step through the voidgate and see what's on the other side.

In the case of Garlemald, those of us who liked the concept of the Empire and ones similar to it were hoping for a better resolution. Thinking back to the often cited Archades, who ended up with Larsa as emperor, a benevolent figure who still loved and wanted the best for his country, someone to root for rather than just...such a lackluster finale here in FFXIV. Even a constitutional monarchy would be a vast improvement, a figurehead emperor is better than nothing at all if it must be the case.

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Not sure why Garlemald requires an emperor or monarch when it was a republic for six centuries. You push the "fantasy" angle of a direct form of government but at the same time Garlemald had modern cars, skyscrapers, trains, machine guns, artillery, paratroopers, clones, and robots.

The oldest extant government on Eitherys, Sharlayan, is a democracy and predates Ishgard by a few centuries. Sharlayan also happens to be the most magical place on the planet, with the most "classical" magic tropes like the magic academy, familiars, walking/talking frogs, libraries of forbidden tomes, summoning and binding spirits (voidsent), robes upon robes, and animated brooms (just ignore the space program). The only other republics I can think of are Ishgard, Bozja, Ala Mhigo, and Eulmore. The story has already pivoted away from those as well, so I don't know why you can disregard the three starter cities, Dravania, Doma and its many satellite petty-kingdoms, Hingashi, Nagxia, Dalmasca, all of the "beastmen", Miqo'te tribes, the Viera/Viis tribes, Azim Steppe, Confederacy, and Il Mheg.

Most of the game's nations that turned to democracy over the course of the story (and Ul'dah's failed attempt) had extremely corrupt governments built upon putting down the vast majority of the populace and royal bloodlines that ended with just 1 person who either refused to carry on the old government, died, or both. With the royal families done, those in power would have had to choose a random person to be their monarch for countries that didn't want that style of government anymore. Garlemald was all set up to fail by an Ascian on purpose so I don't know why they would decide to continue on with it when it was rigged from the start and obviously did not end up working in their favor. Considering the state of the capital and the legions afterwards, there's almost no doubt that more Garleans died killing each other during their two civil wars caused by succession crises than from all of the rebellions or the conquests combined.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Most of the game's nations that turned to democracy over the course of the story (and Ul'dah's failed attempt) had extremely corrupt governments built upon putting down the vast majority of the populace and royal bloodlines that ended with just 1 person who either refused to carry on the old government, died, or both. With the royal families done, those in power would have had to choose a random person to be their monarch for countries that didn't want that style of government anymore. Garlemald was all set up to fail by an Ascian on purpose so I don't know why they would decide to continue on with it when it was rigged from the start and obviously did not end up working in their favor. Considering the state of the capital and the legions afterwards, there's almost no doubt that more Garleans died killing each other during their two civil wars caused by succession crises than from all of the rebellions or the conquests combined.

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And those governments made each nation unique and interesting. I would rather the world be filled with nations who weren't all on the same page, who engaged with conflicts with each other, and who had strong leaders at their helms. Think of Ivalice, or FFIX's Mist continent. All that was needed was to write in 1 surviving royal, 1 Larsa, and I would have been infinitely more satisfied than this nonsensical plot of sending them to the moon.

The role quest's plot was just another round of preaching, delivered by the twins' father rather than themselves. The last prince or princess, rising from the ashes to lead what remains of their people into glory and prosperity would have resonated far more with me than "lets set up a provisional government with senators who we are not going to show on screen." If not, then any of their remaining high ranking military leaders would have been a decent replacement.

I cannot think of a worse way to have ended Garlemald's story, other than perhaps by including a scene of Fourchenault eating fast food in the middle of the city ruins with us.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

In the case of Garlemald, those of us who liked the concept of the Empire and ones similar to it were hoping for a better resolution. Thinking back to the often cited Archades, who ended up with Larsa as emperor, a benevolent figure who still loved and wanted the best for his country, someone to root for rather than just...such a lackluster finale here in FFXIV. Even a constitutional monarchy would be a vast improvement, a figurehead emperor is better than nothing at all if it must be the case.

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I think Larsa is a great example, because he exemplifies why I don’t think that sort of thing works. Benevolent fascism is still fascism, and given the desires of many in Garlemald for a restoration of their military empire, a humbling of sorts is almost certainly required to justify them moving away from their cruel imperialist way. And I think it’s especially necessary given who the previous ruler was and how his line was founded in the first place.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I suppose it is a difference of perspective, I simply do not feel that G'raha Tia's actions are reciprocated and thus they come off as creepy and like an unwanted advance. At some point after enduring too much of that I'd rather just leave the situation or in this case, skip his dialogue and look away till someone else takes to the scene. It is ok to express admiration once, if not twice in the aftermath of a critical story moment. But this is excessive. He is more of a parody now than Princess Sarah in Stranger of Paradise, but without the self-aware storytelling that made her somewhat endearing.

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If you like Graha however it’s hard to say it’s not reciprocated though right?

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

Ah. It's a matter of perspective I suppose, I know there are a lot of people who are super duper hot for G'raha and headcanon that their WoL is dating him or something so his aesthetic definitely appeals to some.

I generally don't swing that way, and I headcanon that my WoL doesn't either with the rarest of exceptions, so appearances aren't really much of a factor in how I feel about his interactions with the WoL. It wouldn't matter if he looked different.

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Thanks Teah and you're 100% right it is ALL about perspective.

I like Jonathan Bailey the VA of G'raha which is quite a nice coincidence and I am looking forward to seeing him in a play at the theatre next week. My in game miqo'te finds G'raha hot and I personally do not in any way find his character as creepy or annoying, he is just excited and hyped about doing stuff together so just positive. I get he annoys alot of people, he isn't to everyones taste but i love him around and I am sure others taste isn't mine either. Shame it isn't configurable or something.

I do think the post role quest cap could have been better. It is nice though to have seen the twins father finally adopt his own father's words. The majority of the Legatus don't come off as anyone I'd want to take over. Those few who are like Gaius or even Quintus seem to be a rare breed. Nael (even the original one), Valens, Gabranth even seemed to not be "ok" mentally. Sure. Gabranth was welcoming to anyone but look at the majority of his subordinates. Almost all of them except for Lyon were horrible people that did horrible things to those on their own side.

Also Haurchefant might not have had sparkly heart eyes for the WoL, but in all of the other languages the guy practically started every conversation with the WoL with "Oh hey tasty looking snack I really wanna get into your britches, but I'm guessing that you're not here to just see litte Ole me so I'll do my best to keep it professional." The man let you know just how dang thirsty he was for the WoL at almost every chance he got. Aymeric would be just as bad as G'raha since the man literally lights up any time he sees us to the point I'm sure that if the WoL ever died he'd somehow already have our body laying in waiting in Ishgard. While the rest of the leaders are bickering over who has a better claim to us or would give us a better funeral. If there wasn't a fight between a few Ishgardian knights, shinobi and whatever Steppe representatives in the shadows. With Alpha and O.M.G watching and eating popcorn.

Honestly between this and the take I read from someone else on a different thread calling G'raha a creep and that they took "great joy in deliberately excluding him from their trusts" I'm glad I don't visit these official forums much. I think it's bizarre to put so much focus on G'raha appearing (allegedly) feminine, or not masculine enough, when even most of the claimed rugged characters in the game are fairly more pretty-boy than not.