ToS and the health of the community

I mean, people dont even have the common courtesy to roll on loot in a leveling dungeon with a sprout that could actually wear it at the time. Or to stick around for 2 seconds and commend someone.
This sort of behavior has nothing to do with ToS and everything to do with rush rush rush mentality. People used to be social because it was fun, not because it was necessary for the dungeon. now being social means the dungeon make take 30 seconds longer. This didnt change because of the 'potential' for being banned if you are an asshat. people changed.

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Originally Posted by Demetri_Delethorn

I've spoken to plenty of people outside the game who have told me that they refuse to use the in-game chat for this very reason. I rarely use the chat myself simply because it isn't worth the risk. There is definitely no shortage of people who keep quiet out of concern and worry.

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Yet I have never heard of anyone who was actually banned and wasnt a turd. FFXIV banning you for trying to be nice and giving advice is an urban legend.

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Originally Posted by Broken_Wind

Yet I have never heard of anyone who was actually banned and wasnt a turd. FFXIV banning you for trying to be nice and giving advice is an urban legend.

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I do have a suspension because a player in novice network was calling someone the R word. Rather than kick them outright, I chose to tell them to stop, or I would remove them.

This is a violation. You cannot threaten someone with a kick. I was specifically meant to straight kick them, and not warn them of their behavior.

Could I have? Ya. But I tried being patient and communicate, which is what everyone likes to say to do.

The ToS in FF14 is something that will not help because it does not take "the real world" in consideration. It takes critique as a bad thing and put us under general suspicion "you will break it, so we make the rules in a way that will punish harshly. This will result in a better community" and this is just wrong. A good community needs work and dedication and this is missing at the moment. I stopped talking not because of fear of punishment but because people are getting disgusting with their behavior: trolls that trie to trigger people or people that want to be triggered. This is the problem but hey lets make the ToS even more punishing it will sureley help (this is sarcasm).

i see, i understand the points, overall i just think that enforcing "non toxic" behavior could lead to a point where the interactions between players feels kinda fake sometimes.

I mean making a mistake and being told so is part of learning and learning may be frustrating but it is also rewarding in the long run. In my perspective is not even being afraid to talk in chat is just not wanting to roll the dice and having to deal with someone that knows its being protected by the ToS and refuses to listen even if his gameplay could be affecting the whole group. I mean at the end of the day it is a MMO and you should have to commit even at a minimum level when joining on group content, even if it is a simple Ex Roulette.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Mmmmm I don’t think it’s the TOS fault. Quite frankly people have grown less nice with time and I’m not sure what social factor has lead to this. Yeah toxicity has been rampart in online gaming for a long time but I do feel it has gotten worse. I don’t recall any FFXI experiences being as rage filled and people being as insecure as in XIV.

If I had to take a really long shot guess the quality of life of people has improved and convenience all around in their life has made them more impatient, volatile and entitled?

Now a days you have two day shipping and on demand everything so I guess people have developed shorter fuses. Just try to make them wait 5 seconds and watch expletives fly out the window.

I just don’t think we are society with a lot of empathy and conscience anymore. Even the duty finder is a convenience mechanism. Imagine having to be nice to attract people to your PF or yell in a city so you can run content together? LOL who has the time for that. Give me instant queues.

So yeah, the pace of content and convenience has increased rapidly, but I think the quality of social interactions has tanked as a result. Because you don’t need to wait for anything.

People are very hypocritical. When they are new or need something watch them be all nice with puppy eyes. But when they are experienced and have become good, I’d say a good 60% of them turn into ragers and bullies because screw putting up with others. But heck; I’m just speculating and nothing else. I don’t think it’s rose colored glasses though. People are more isolated and insecure now a days even though they have communication tools to connect and interact we could only dream a decade and a half ago.

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If people complain about how they feel the ToS stifles their ability to talk to other players in a game, then the ToS is an issue. Whether people offer help or throw out an unwelcome suggestion, they now fear that the person in question will use the ToS as a sword rather than a shield. The issue is people don't have confidence that malicious actors won't use the ToS. They are quite right to be worried about this because everything can be. There is no system built today that people cannot exploit for their own benefit and many people feel like the ToS does more to damage the social fabric of the game than protect it with how strict it has become, especially around "perceived offence". The job of a GM first is to rectify a pain point rather than to mediate between two parties. While you may be fortunate that you might get a GM who does so, this does not happen in all cases, leading to the ToS being applied in a non-consistent manner which is an issue because all paying customers have the right to fair and equal treatment where they don't feel like they are being victimised for talking to someone.

Convenience does not mean forgoing social relationships. In fact, it's one largest selling points of an MMORPG. Having the ability to strike up conversations with a stranger even in a 15-minute dungeon and penitentially making friends in the said dungeon has always been the magic of an MMO.

People have always been hypocritical because their days aren't sitting in an armchair thinking about life and the various elements that summarise it to have a cohesive and consistent thought process on the hot button topic of the day. Just read any university or high school student's report, and there will be two paragraphs completely contradicting each other because they don't really know and that's 100% fine, being a hypocrite is a part of being human.

People now are not more isolated. They are more connected now than they have ever been, and because of this, a lot of us realised that no one wanted to talk to us, but they were certainly using that connectivity to talk to others. When communicating online, you are missing a key factor in communication which is body language; someone being blunt and expecting you to be competent isn't them being a bully its them having different standards and not having you in front of them to judge how their response affect you, or you took the response the wrong way because you can't see how they are acting, or they didn't communicate clearly enough for you to understand that's not me calling you dumb that's me saying you didn't have the necessary amount of information to draw the conclusion they wanted. There are too many factors here to say that people become ragers and bullies because you may have had a negative social interaction which is also 100% fine and expected.

It is a expected outcome I think. People can "feel offended" almost from anything you do, which leads this kind of TOS.
I don't type in group chat unless they are FC friends :) I don't type anything in local chat..
If I am not happy in a random group or duty finder I just leave I don't have to explain why. Game allows it with penalty.

Did one of the recent ZeplaHQ videos inspire this post? :p

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

Did one of the recent ZeplaHQ videos inspire this post? :p

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actually not, there is one? Good to now some content creator is giving this some attention, i'll make sure to look at it ty for the heads up!

What made me think about it was the way they approached the new PvP mode, where you can't play with friends nor communicate with the pug group properly due to possible friction. Turning what could be a fun activity leaving mixed feeling, on one side you don't get yelled nor shit talked, on the other side you also can't coordinate properly, ask or give advice without recurring to discord communities or being experienced enough in competitive games to learn by yourself.

For me it reflects how they try create this safe space for new players but i feel like it just alienates them and move the topics away from the game to discord or private groups.

This is an authoritarian state sir.