LL 70 Kaiten/SAM preview: Pragmatic/constructive ways to adjust the change before 6.1

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

Is the funny thing about all this Kaiten nonsense. If it didn’t have a cool animation no one would care. That alone should let you know that it can be chopped if they are trying to clear up space.

Additionally, the combination of buttons can also be done while taking away Kaiten. However, people have this obsession with a certain number of buttons on their hot bar

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It's a decision of Shinten or Kaiten. It's small but a potential potency loss and does requires skill, even if it's muscle memory. If this is insignificant, then all actions are insignificant, and we might as well be watching a cutscene.

It reduces required skill and game feel.

They could have combined certain AoE/ST actions like they have for other jobs instead. The feeling and required skill would be unchanged and keybinds reduced by greater amount.

If we remove Kaiten, then following the same logic (lack of complex decisions, action reduction), Shinten should be removed too. Shinten has even less decisions in its use.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

the patch is 10 days away
its all set in stone already with potency adjustments and rework of Iajutsu

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Might get lucky and have them bring it back like when Hagakure got removed. Honestly, I wonder if any of the play testers even main SAM or if they just glance over it on a spreadsheet and say "let's change this" before moving on to one of the other 10+ DPS jobs.

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

Is the funny thing about all this Kaiten nonsense. If it didn’t have a cool animation no one would care. That alone should let you know that it can be chopped if they are trying to clear up space.

Additionally, the combination of buttons can also be done while taking away Kaiten. However, people have this obsession with a certain number of buttons on their hot bar

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Life Surge has a relatively boring animation yet I'll be annoyed if the supposed adjustments to how "busy" Dragoon is leads to its removal. While small, Kaiten does have some optimizing quirks beyond just spamming it on Midare. Even without those, I prefer the feel of powering up one of my ability to it just auto-CDH. Not to mention, this change makes Samurai have anti-synergy with several other jobs.

No matter how you slice it, removing Kaiten over far more egregious alternates like Shoha II is rather dumb. Especially with the accompanying CDH change. All they've done is make the job feel worse both to play and to have in your party.

Just because changes are set in stone for a patch less than 2 weeks away doesn't mean the devs won't revert it in the future. Sure we'll have to live without Kaiten for a while but I'm sure the drop in Samurai's and the feedback will correct it eventually.
So maybe until they address the concerns "boycott" the job and keep discussing? I always wanted to get better at monk lol.
I just really wish they told us they were thinking of cutting Kaiten further ahead of time :(

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Originally Posted by Edweena

Just because changes are set in stone for a patch less than 2 weeks away doesn't mean the devs won't revert it in the future. Sure we'll have to live without Kaiten for a while but I'm sure the drop in Samurai's and the feedback will correct it eventually.
So maybe until they address the concerns "boycott" the job and keep discussing? I always wanted to get better at monk lol.
I just really wish they told us they were thinking of cutting Kaiten further ahead of time :(

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I have planned to unsub when this becomes a reality, and get back playing after they revert it. My friend said to me 'It happened to job X, you'll get used to it'. They may be right, but we're also at fault if we keep enabling bad decisions. Ihave said my piece in other thread and dont wanna sound like a broken record but

Bring Kaiten back.

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Originally Posted by Leemon

I have planned to unsub when this becomes a reality, and get back playing after they revert it. My friend said to me 'It happened to job X, you'll get used to it'. They may be right, but we're also at fault if we keep enabling bad decisions. Ihave said my piece in other thread and dont wanna sound like a broken record but

Bring Kaiten back.

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see you in two to four years then.

Removing Kaiten isn't an issue by itself. It becomes an issue when there are more effective ways to reduce the button bloat SAM has such as consolidating Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II. Removing Seigan was also a poor decision in terms of bloat reduction. IOW, they are pruning the wrong skills.

Replying to Quyn: For now and now only I will respond to post like this, knowing I will get a respond of this nature. If that is the case, then so be it. Heck, I'd say good riddance since there's so much games out there that respects its player by not just dumping unwanted/last minute change to a class core gameplay out of nowhere. I hope this is not the case for FF14 and this might still be redeemed, I heard that this game is 'a game that respects your time', but changing a class' core mechanic overnight is not it IMO. I hope we all can find our fun, here or elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Removing Kaiten isn't an issue by itself. It becomes an issue when there are more effective ways to reduce the button bloat SAM has such as consolidating Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II. Removing Seigan was also a poor decision in terms of bloat reduction. IOW, they are pruning the wrong skills.

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This. Kaiten also fulfills the role of Shinten and Kyuten for what that’s worth. Though I think it’s worth a lot as they’re directly comparable. The only reason those skills exist is to be better than Kaiten most of the time. Their effects could be merged or removed and still preserve the gameplay that Kaiten provides by focusing on it being used on stronger GCDs in general.

I'd be really sad if they remove Kaiten, The tactile feel from pressing a button for my class fantasy of 'sheathing' my sword for a big attack along with its animation and sound effect would be really missed by me.

As for suggestions I'd agree with OP on adding some form of Kenki cost on Iaijustu whether it be static or dynamic cost.
Maybe make the Kaiten button turn into Iaijustu when pressed.

Though on second thought having a oGCD button turn into a GCD button is admittedly weird but I'll still put it out there.