Wait....where are the Ninjas?

Waiting for them to add the much more appealing Thief instead.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

It seems fine to me considering they’re still burst focused. Been enjoying it a lot more than Summoner (but that really doesn’t take much if we go by current iterations).

I think the big problem is some people just don’t like high APM jobs and Raijus were simply not okay at launch. The former is what drew me into NIN in the first place. The latter has been fixed but former mains have moved on.

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The problem still remains that their output doesn't justify the high APM so people just move on to other jobs that reward much better output for much less effort.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

The problem still remains that their output doesn't justify the high APM so people just move on to other jobs that reward much better output for much less effort.

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And yet others quit because the attempt to lower the APM from what it was is.....

Well look I quit NIN cause it doesn't feel as fast on the Mudra as it used to which I believe was the change. Better for ping, I get that but feel so shackled when I try to level NIN now.

It wasn't as rewarding as other classes but I liked the flow enough to not care. Now..., I can't get that groove back or the new groove started.

On topic, I do see NINs but not in previous numbers. I think Reaper took most of them.

As someone who used to main Ninja, I'm kinda disappointed with where the job is and how it feels. I've always been a Rogue/Assassin/Thief class in MMOs, and while I do slightly prefer the Rogue/fantasy archetype, Ninja is still cool. Throughout HW up to ShB, I preferred it to most melee, it felt fast, unique, and needed. Now I'm kinda at a loss to play Ninja. Monk feels fast, brings big DPS, and is wanted. Samurai is more methodical, but feels impactful. Even Reaper, while not as fast, really feels like you're making a difference. Whenever I'm on Ninja I just don't get that same, cool, unique, and helpful feeling that I used to. Being a Trick Attack robot is not worth it. I feel like it takes sooo much more work for the same or worse benefits than pretty much all the other melee jobs. I love playing melee, and always have a tough time deciding on my main, and I'm still undecided on who to main(MNK, RPR, or SAM), but the sad thing is, for the first time since HW, I ruled out Ninja almost immediately.

I will never understand why there still exist these archaic mechanics like Ten Chi Jin canceling if you move or Raiju getting removed if you use a weaponskill, or why Mug exists the way it is or why Bunshin is a random 90sec cooldown or why Phantom kamaitachi exists if you're going to hold it for a long time just to use it during trick anyways so it just feels like just another no name GCD.
I mean I get the idea behind it, they wanted to give it a physical thief/assassin phase and a magical ninja naruto phase with Raiju but it's just awkward.
I guess none of the devs plays the older jobs.

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Originally Posted by AlgernonBlackwood

Oh man, I have a lot of opinions on this job. I think there are a lot of reasons it's always been one of the least popular jobs, even prior to its 6.0 undertuning + Raiju issues.

• The skill floor/ceiling: Basically, the job is too intimidating to learn to appeal to a lot of newcomers/casuals and too braindead once you've learned it to appeal to a lot of challenge-seekers/optimizers. Even if you just want dat high APM, the 45s of almost nothing but 1-2-3 makes the job a hard sell.
  
  
• Gear: it's currently the only job that doesn't share armor with any other job. This makes it inherently less appealing if you intend to raid since you're effectively locked into a single job without putting in 2x the effort to gear up. Every other job has at least one other option that just requires a different weapon. Sharing accessories with p. ranged isn't necessarily a bad thing, but unless you can find a flexible static with another person willing to alternate between melee and p. ranged, you'll need to get a whole other set of accessories.
  
  
• Rogue requires you to go rather out of your way to unlock, starts at level 1, and is absolute dogsh*t to play. It has to be most miserable 30 level to get through in the game and it somehow keeps getting worse every expansion as more and more of NIN's assassin/rogue skills get removed to make room for Naruto stuff. The thematic gap between Rogue and Ninja is much larger then it is with any other ARR class/job, which makes it really difficult give you anything interesting to do earlier on, like they did with MNK in EW. This thematic gap also turns off a lot of people who were more interested in the rogue job fantasy, while SAM, a job that starts out at level 50 with a bunch of awesome skills, syphons away a fair number of weebs.
  
  
• Trick Attack just isn't very satisfying to use: I know the debuff is supposed to primarily benefit the party, but it just feels like such a miniscule personal gain. Also, NIN's burst doesn't really feel that unique anymore now that every DPS has at least 1 crazy burst window every 120s. Honestly, aside from the initial Hyosho Ranryu/DWAD, it mostly just feels like generic filler at this point. SAM or RPR's burst feel way more unique and impactful.
  

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This. Playing the class in level 50 or below content used to be more satisfying. But they have stripped away so many of the Rogue skills that we now have the least number of skills below 50 than any other class. This is probably a major turn off for new players.

But the comment that hits the nail on the head for me is the thematic direction of NIN. I miss every single rogue skill they have deleted to replace with some forced Naruto cliché. And Endwalker was the last straw with this raiju nonsense.

Monk is better, but lacks the rogue feels. But at least I can be pure and fast melee again.

I'll play NIN again when they restore Shadow Fang (as a combo action), separate Assassinate from DWD, delete 1 or both of the Raijus. I would be even happier though if they went further and just gave us Heavensward NIN. I would gladly give up every new skill they have introduced since then for that.

Nah, keep my naruto run.

I get the thematic complaints but I don't think it helps the job's flow having more DoTs and combo branches in the filler if they also conflict with the burst phase, which is complicated enough and varies up significantly with fights based on where you want/need to use Mudras for disengages. I do think the Raijus are a bit excessive, but they'd serve a better purpose in the rotation if they could be stockpiled and used freely. Or maybe we bring in a new DoT and have them and/or Phantom refresh/extend it so there's at least a way to add to the filler without conflicting with the burst window.

All jobs kinda suck pre 30 too so it's not exactly a NIN issue. I'd say Summoner or the healers are worse if we're playing that game. But the general desire to downshift or add elements to make the early levels more fun and introduce a more realistic rotation early is something I do agree with. I just don't see a way to pull off low level Mudras, so all you'd really shift is the filler and burst CDs that are independent of that, which isn't much better if we're being honest. At best, you can do a low level version of Bunshin, downshift Hurajin, and maybe Mug upgrades into something else or is reworked? Ninki actions are basically the only thing we can downshift, so Mug would upgrade into either Bhava or Meisui, which gets messy but I think that is doable.

I'd still probably want something extra in the core rotation, but those all seem like reasonable ideas for ARR's levelling process.

I must be the only one who actually likes 6.05 ninja lol.

I'm a Ninja main, and while I initially disliked the new Gap Closer move I'm glad they sort of "split" it. But, it does feel clunky and I dislike how if you use a Weaponskill it makes you lose your action. So, it's kinda eliminates your options a bit to combo.
I really do want to know what they're thinking.

But, NIN is my main and I will continue to play it as a I love using Dual-Wielding Swords and NIN is the only like that and I enjoy playing as NIN even if it's not the strongest. It's fun for me. Though the removal and changing of skills has gotten me a little taken off my rhythm a bit.

Hopefully they do something about Trick Attack. I kinda dislike always going into it to increase my damage dealt.