Job Balancing 6.08 (still needs work)

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Originally Posted by Taranok

And all it took was removing the nerf on Xenoglossy and increasing the potency on practically everything (except Despair) across the board to fix it. It's quite interesting to see how they nerfed the class going into EW so massively and gave it the single largest buff I've seen since about 4.1 when Fire 4 became a 2.8s cast with 300 potency (from 3s/260 iirc, or was that multiple patches).

They truly were fine with reaper. It was everyone else who was in an awful position.

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The disparity between the top and bottom now is so much worse than it was in 6.05, if reapers DPS put everything else in an awful position what does 6.08 BLM, MNK and SAM do lol? BLM is an astounding 500 rDPS ahead of its role now, and the gap is much, much larger in its pDPS. BLM is definitely the most egregiously overtuned job at the moment(to the point its DPS is so massive it's probably worth bringing 2 of them since their DPS probably outweighs the 1% buff) but monk and samurai aren't too far behind. Reaper is also now in a terrible spot, it has the worst raid buff of the melee and its personal dps is so far behind SAM and now even MNK which was already ahead of it that it's likely now the weakest melee aside from possibly ninja, so if they are fine with that than they are apparently fine with bad balance.

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Originally Posted by Xander_Diabolos

A few examples:
Monk has 20% speed due to Greased Lightning III. Give them 40% attack/skill speed to make them do really fast weapon skills vs stronger ones. This would give a whole new feel to Monk. Going from 2 > 1.6 seconds to 2 > 1.2 would feel much faster and rewarding at the higher levels.

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Uuum..
No MNK wouldn't be down to 1.2 GCD, MNK have around 2s GCD WITH GL not without like you're saying.

MNK is already fast enough to the point double-weaving is problematic it doesn't need to be faster.
For one this would ruin one of the openers.
Tbh I think even single-weaving would begin to feel awkward and run a higher risk of clipping.

What MNK needs imo isn't to be faster in terms of GCD MNK is already as fast as you can get basically and still have it be functional.
What MNK needs is faster animations, the base combo animations are extremely outdated and don't look at all like how you'd imagine a fast Martial Artist.
They look and feel slow and awkward.

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Originally Posted by Xander_Diabolos

Right now I feel if you do not play Reaper you aren't doing decent damage in comparison. Ranged makes sense to do a little less damage since you have a lot more freedom, but other melee shouldn't be this weak in comparison.

Dragoon:
Raiden Thrust > Vorpal Thrust > Heaven Thrust > Fang and Claw > Wheeling Thrust
280 > 280 > 480 > 300 > 300 potency means an average 328 potency per weapon skill

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Don't forget about Lance Mastery I, the 5th combo is 400 potency.
But also don't forget positional in the combos, something reaper doesn't have to worry about whatsoever.

Why are we comparing combo ppgcd for jobs with varying %oGCD damage... instead of just comparing their average ppm and their typical bonus damage given to the party -- or just their outright rDPS?

There’s a reason there’s such a ranged DPS shortage. No one wants to play that role. The ranged tax needs to either be removed, or reduced.

Melee DPS are fine. They’re all in a relatively good spot.

Smn now needs a buff the most!..., and its rez is like "half" an utility

(Smn loses so much MP during the fight, it can't handel rezs later into fights well; .. the phoenix healing is minimal, might as well be taken out.., only the damage buff schould considered full utility, but than other dps have more usfull utility and still outclass Smn dps by HUGE margins)

There’s a reason there’s such a ranged DPS shortage. No one wants to play that role. The ranged tax needs to either be removed, or reduced.

Melee DPS are fine. They’re all in a relatively good spot.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Mobility tax should be 50-100 rDPS at most, not 1k, especially with the many mobility tools such as Thunderclap.

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Right now all melees are top damage. Black Mage is the anomaly. Raid fights were specifically designed for melee DPS so yeah, I'm not surprise they have little downtime. they also have less positional and P2S doesn't even have a single positional. One thing that is also pretty important to consider is when you have a mechanic that forces you to be disengaged. Theres a part of P3S where a DPS has to bait a tornado cone. Only a psychopath would make a DRG or a SAM do it over a ranged physical. That mobility is helping the melee DPS.

Strats are designed to make melee DPS not lose uptime or casters move. I can tell you when you get spreads in P3S that it's not the BLM who is adjusting.

Yeah, Ranged Physical and Caster should do less DPS than melee. Not by 10% to 12%. 1-2% at best imho. BLM shouldn't be doing 7-8% more DPS than casters.

That said, 6.1 is technically where the real balance changes will occur. I loathe the lack of communication to the player base on questionable decisions like MNK buff and the massive BLM buff. Like, okay, you buffed them. But why?

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Originally Posted by Sequora

There’s a reason there’s such a ranged DPS shortage. No one wants to play that role. The ranged tax needs to either be removed, or reduced.

Melee DPS are fine. They’re all in a relatively good spot.

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Nobody wants to feel useless and weak. That sums up Ranged Physical since 5.0. They never got compensate from Piercing debuff. While melee got it easier in Endwalker, nothing has changed. Reaper's design is fantastic. Monk rework was just an upgrade and SMN which is basically a new job got completely shafted. You could call it Melee Fantasy XIV

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

That said, 6.1 is technically where the real balance changes will occur. I loathe the lack of communication to the player base on questionable decisions like MNK buff and the massive BLM buff. Like, okay, you buffed them. But why?

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If you look Phoinix or Hesperos 2 parses RDM is only around 250 DPS behind BLM right now and the gap is only getting closer once people are closer to bis gear and play better. If BLM would not get that massive 300+ DPS buff, it would already be behind RDM in 100% parse in Phoinix and Hesperos 2. Balancing selfish and buffer jobs is always kind of tricky because buffer jobs have so much more DPS potential after prog. Average DPS is always BLMs flavor because it is easier to have a good run with one job in a single run than a good run with 8 different people. To balance jobs around average DPS BLM would be out of the question for a speed kill meta. I think casters are currently pretty fine if SMN would be buffed somewhere between RDM and BLM right now.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

If you look Phoinix or Hesperos 2 parses RDM is only around 250 DPS behind BLM right now and the gap is only getting closer once people are closer to bis gear and play better. If BLM would not get that massive 300+ DPS buff, it would already be behind RDM in 100% parse in Phoinix and Hesperos 2. Balancing selfish and buffer jobs is always kind of tricky because buffer jobs have so much more DPS potential after prog. Average DPS is always BLMs flavor because it is easier to have a good run with one job in a single run than a good run with 8 different people. To balance jobs around average DPS BLM would be out of the question for a speed kill meta. I think casters are currently pretty fine if SMN would be buffed somewhere between RDM and BLM right now.

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On Hesperos 2 BLM is still top did you sort it by last 1 week or left it on 2 weeks wich would include results before 6.08.
On P2S and P1S BLM is 2nd only slightly behind monk.
P3S is only anomaly where BLM is slightly behind all melees.

Yet MCH is dead last on every fight by 1k+ dps.