Don't buff PLD dmg, buff PLD Enmity

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

I guess you're all missing the point. With PLD there is no communication required. Even with tank stance on, unless the other tank is also a pld, my role is defined. It'd be great to need to have that conversation at the beginning of a run.

And like I said before, if they want to buff dmg to increase enmity, then our 1h sword needs to be hitting as hard as a 2h sword.

It's simple to check, have two tanks, equal gear, put stance on and do their rotations. PLD enmity bar will always be behind other tanks. I can switch class from PLD to WAR, IN THE SAME GEAR, run the same dungeon, and as WAR I will have aggro every time. The other tank isn't shirking, has tank stance on and is doing all their stuff too.

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Are you assuming that PLD = MT? Or why is there no communication required?
I hate to burst your bubble: Thats simply not the case - any tank can maintank, specially in casual content. Being a PLD doesnt make you the MT by default. When there are two tanks, one should simply not be in tankstance (unless they need to tank something, too - like adds or picking up the boss when the MT dies etc.). That might require communication, because your choice of tank-job isnt enough there.

Fighting over aggro and not communcating simply makes you a bad tank.
PLD is having some issues atm - but your issue wont be fixed by buffing the job (either damage or enemity). Your issue is a lack of communcation, the false assumption that your the default MT because of your job and making everyones life harder by getting into pointless fights over aggro.

(Also: There are only two dungeons with two tanks - if you're actually talking about trials the lack of communication is even worse because it will lead to one boss constantly spinning around. If you're talking about actual dungeons, the problem is even more worse because there is no second tank and you'd be losing aggro to dps and healer...)

If you buff PLD’s personal damage, by proxy you would be buffing their enmity generation.

It seems like this is less an issue of enmity with regards to the job, and more like you just always want to be the main tank. It honestly doesn’t matter that much, and PLD isn’t the de facto MT in 8-man content.

The other tanks rip off of you with their stance on because their personal damage is so much higher, which in turn affects their enmity generation. It has very little to do with PLD having garbage enmity generation and just that its personal damage is lower than the other three tanks. Naturally it will fall behind even if the MT PLD is doing everything “right”. So…the obvious solution is to bring it up to the other three in terms of damage. As I said, by proxy this would buff their enmity generation.

Giving PLD god tier enmity generation wouldn’t suddenly make it superior to the other three tanks. Especially since enmity is a joke and has been since Shadowbringers. Enmity doesn’t matter nearly as much as you think it does: a decent PLD can hold it just fine off of tanks that don’t have stance on, and the rest of the party. A bad PLD won’t be able to do that—but that’s not an issue with the job. That’s an issue with the player.

You want to be MT without communication, spam shield lob. You won't be doing good dps, but at least you'll be top on enmity. Theres more to tanking then just being top enmity.

The problem is that technically speaking, any enmity beyond that which allows you to maintain aggro is mostly useless. Being the king of enmity does absolutely nothing to help the usefulness of the PLD, nor does it differentiate the PLD from any other tank in any useful form.

It's like giving WHMs half healing enmity. It does literally nothing to help the WHM.

The problem with PLD is that it is deliberately tuned to have significantly less damage in a game where damage is everything, because all tanks are guaranteed to be able to survive in every content in the game, and enmity ceased to be an issue several years ago. Damage is THE single metric that tanks are measured by, and PLD is deliberately tuned to perform worse in that only metric that matters.

FFXIV may have started as a holy-trinity game, but it has steadily shifted towards the structure where everyone are just DPS with different side tasks. This is why every discussion ultimately arrive at dps charts: because the game is currently being designed so that everything else are guaranteed anyways, and only damage matters.

The other tank's item level may just be higher or they might be using level 90 HQ food and pots. You could do the same.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

And like I said before, if they want to buff dmg to increase enmity, then our 1h sword needs to be hitting as hard as a 2h sword.

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It already is. All tanks' weapons have the same weapon damage. What you are looking for is potency for each skill, not from the weapon.

While it does feel slightly annoying when a DRK or WAR can faceroll their keyboard and rip aggro, it also doesn't really matter and should be remedied by incoming potency adjustments.

I don't agree that PLD enmity should be buffed, but what they're saying is not as confusing as some of you seem to think.

If two tanks run up to a mob and they both want to tank it--which happens a lot in casual duties, believe it or not--and they both do their rotation correctly, the one who does the most damage keeps hate.

If one is guaranteed to do less damage, they will never have hate.

Not mysterious. The people saying "the solution is to buff PLD damage" are reading it correctly.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I don't agree that PLD enmity should be buffed, but what they're saying is not as confusing as some of you seem to think.

If two tanks run up to a mob and they both want to tank it--which happens a lot in casual duties, believe it or not--and they both do their rotation correctly, the one who does the most damage keeps hate.

If one is guaranteed to do less damage, they will never have hate.

Not mysterious. The people saying "the solution is to buff PLD damage" are reading it correctly.

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That's not what content or jobs are balanced around. If both tanks fight over aggro in casual content it's annoying for everyone else but nothing more than that. If a tank does significantly less damage it will be a lot more difficult to get into high end content on the job you love and that is at odds with SE's goal to keep every job viable for high end content.

Tired of other tanks ripping aggro?

Throw some shield lobs for big time enmity, that’ll show them!

Just kidding.. but..
I have had no issue MT or OT in savage first and second boss.
I’m not begging for a huge damage buff but I do think we need a little bit to bridge the gap between tanks.