Post EW, I still have Questions

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

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I'll see if I can answer some of these.

1. We don't know how those 3 avoided the sundering, although Elidibus was seperated from Zodiark at the time, hence why he wasn't sundered with Zodiark.

2. Azem rejected Zodiark but didn't respond to Venat's solution, so chances are Azem was going around helping people in their own way.

3. We don't know for certain what Fandaniel was refering to and Zenos himself never cared enough about it. My personal thought was that they were refering to the echo being in a garlean, the only race unable to manipulate aether.

4. Tempering was an unintentional side effect of Zodiark's summoning as nothing close to that scale had ever been created before. When the ascians later took note of that, they exaggerated the effects in the rituals they taught the various beast tribes.

5. We don't know if Azem does. Themis assumes we are the star reffered to and we just roll with that because its convenient. It is quite possible that Azem was talking about someone or something else.

6. Roleplay purposes I'd wager. Both the WoL and Ardbert came from Azem's soul but they are individuals in their own right, so it is up to the player to interpret if they are very akin to Azem or only superfically so.

7. The Moon ship was to give the people of the source more time. Hydaelyn believed that people could defeat Meteion in time, but she did not know how much would be required so the ship would extend the deadline they had. Also yes the moonship does have a lot of aether on it via the crystals that, among other things provide breathable air.

I hope this helps.

Appreciate the responses.

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Originally Posted by Layte_Aeon

4. Tempering was an unintentional side effect of Zodiark's summoning as nothing close to that scale had ever been created before. When the ascians later took note of that, they exaggerated the effects in the rituals they taught the various beast tribes.

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Maybe, but Livingway presents "something on the scale of zodiark" as a specific example of summoning when she reveals tempering was an add-on. And she says that, if you summoned Zodiark the original way (the best way, accept no substitutes), then she says you might feel a little tug, not that you'd be tempered. So, therefore summoning Zodiark still shouldn't have unintentionally tempered any ascians.

Assuming that Livingway is right, the tempering in Zodiark's summoning had to be done on purpose by someone. And Lahabrea was the one responsible for coming up with Zodiark in the first place. Take the fact that every encounter we've ever had with him or mentioning him points to him being a certified jerk who likes using people and powertripping, and I think we have good reason to suspect it was on purpose and he did it.

Pandemonium spoilers:

Pandemonium is supporting this so far, too, imo, with Eric's description of Lahabrea. Though, I am also half expecting to find out Eric will be the Lahabrea we actually know from the future, taking up his father's office in the end or something. So I'm trying to ignore his account for the moment and just go off our personal experience with Lahabrea.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

5. Why does Azem seem to know about our pending presence in Pandaemonium, to the point they can (cryptically) tell Elidibus to be on the lookout for us? (And if they do, did they know we'd be in Elpis proper, too, and avoided us?)

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I think you're over thinking this part of the story. The actual quote, after mistaking us for Azem, is, "He/She told me a falling star would appear before me, and I suppose you must be it. Truth be told, I did not expect the expression to be so...literal."

None of this says Azem saw the future and was being cryptic, nor was Azem avoiding us. It appears that Themis doesn't know how to go about investigating Pandaemonium and asked Azem for advice and Azem's advice was look for a falling star--in other words look to heavens for the answer or you'll figure it out when you get there. Azem was just being an encouraging friend, they didn't know the future, and this is pretty on point for the Ancient that can call their friends to their side.

Themis' line about the expression being literal is ironic because you fall out the sky the exact moment he sets out to investigate Pandaemonium.

This is all supposed to be a funny coincidence in the "meet cute" sort of way.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Maybe, but Livingway presents "something on the scale of zodiark" as a specific example of summoning when she reveals tempering was an add-on. And she says that, if you summoned Zodiark the original way (the best way, accept no substitutes), then she says you might feel a little tug, not that you'd be tempered. So, therefore summoning Zodiark still shouldn't have unintentionally tempered any ascians.

Assuming that Livingway is right, the tempering in Zodiark's summoning had to be done on purpose by someone. And Lahabrea was the one responsible for coming up with Zodiark in the first place. Take the fact that every encounter we've ever had with him or mentioning him points to him being a certified jerk who likes using people and powertripping, and I think we have good reason to suspect it was on purpose and he did it.

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Livingway is typically right, but has a gift of understatement; I'd believe them in terms of saying something happened, but assuming 'a little tug' meant exactly that is rather missing the forest for the trees with who's saying it.

I suppose I can't rule out the notion of 'Lahabrea did it because Lahabrea's a git', but I'd caution that you need more evidence than that before hitching your wagon to it, lest you get disappointed when the near-baseless assertion turns out untrue.

Hell, Pandaemonium as-is should be warning you, I'd think.

We don't even know who in the story is the Lahabrea we've dealt with, if we've even met him yet, so we can't really say 'yeah, X character is someone who'd do something like that in the future'.

The more I’m going over the bits and pieces of the Azem story - the more I’m getting on board the “We are Azem, and we go back in time to become Azem” train.

It would not be hard for us to “collect” our other reflection shards - starting with the Void - which seems to be one of our next destinations.

Us going back in time could be “end game” expansion material - leading to us getting sundered - to start all over again.

Or, we go back in time after collecting all our bits and pieces - with a plan to somehow both let the sundering happen - but also save everyone at the same time (possibly using a giant time travel robot city that can “pause time”).

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

The more I’m going over the bits and pieces of the Azem story - the more I’m getting on board the “We are Azem, and we go back in time to become Azem” train.

It would not be hard for us to “collect” our other reflection shards - starting with the Void - which seems to be one of our next destinations.

Us going back in time could be “end game” expansion material - leading to us getting sundered - to start all over again.

Or, we go back in time after collecting all our bits and pieces - with a plan to somehow both let the sundering happen - but also save everyone at the same time (possibly using a giant time travel robot city that can “pause time”).

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You do realize that to collect those soul shards then that soul would have to be like Ardbert was on the first. Dead, wandering the world as an unseen spirit and not in the aetheial sea... meaning this for the other shards and not the 13th. We'd also have to know exactly which soul was ours (see the color of our soul) or do a rejoining of our own.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

You do realize that to collect those soul shards then that soul would have to be like Ardbert was on the first. Dead, wandering the world as an unseen spirit and not in the aetheial sea... meaning this for the other shards and not the 13th. We'd also have to know exactly which soul was ours (see the color of our soul) or do a rejoining of our own.

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Yep! Sounds exactly like expansion material to me.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

Yep! Sounds exactly like expansion material to me.

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/facepalm. Our WoL would not do that he/she would have to KILL that other person. Or as I said do what Ardbert did and Kill themselves. That is not expansion material

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Originally Posted by Rannie

/facepalm. Our WoL would not do that he/she would have to KILL that other person. Or as I said do what Ardbert did and Kill themselves. That is not expansion material

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Not necessarily. Or at least they wouldn’t have to be the one to kill them. There are any number of ways the writers could get us moving in this direction.

Also, who is to say all the Azem reflections are done being Azem? Time moves differently on each reflection. On one reflection, it might’ve only been a couple years after the Sundering - and that Azem meets us and and willingly rejoins.

Or, on another reflection, we find out Azem is still around - and is evil - and has been collecting shards of their own to become more powerful and live longer. When we defeat them, we get their collected “Azem bits” and become less-sundered.

Or, there’s an expansion where we have to hop into the lifestream - and find a couple Azem bits there that want to join us.

Lots of options (:

Again they would still have to die or be killed in some way, the WoL again would have to ALSO know exactly which person it is that is our shard. The WoL has NEVER had that ability. Ardbert when he was acting as a "Warrior of Darkness" was not evil and was easily for swayed back to our side of thinking after a couple fight with us. Being a helpful person is ingrained into our soul.

The time dilation doesn't completely mean that nothing has moved at all. If that had been the case Emet would not have made the comment about how the other shards had turned out differently in the customs and etc. Meaning he has visited the other ones that are left besides the void and time has still passed and is not stuck 12000 years in said past. Btw that's only 4 nit including the void

Hopping into the lifestream would not work either. Due to the fact the lifestream itself was sundered as well. There is also the running risk of staying in the life stream and being killed also. We again if it where even possible to traverse the life stream we would still need to know exactly which so we're were after and usually that via color.

Edit: in case you are wondering how I know each life stream is seperate. Hydaelyn herself made mention of the fact that she brought our Minfillia from the First's Lifestream/ aetherial to the sources so she could rest and be reborn on the source as well as Bringing Emets other wise both of them would have stayed in the first