Does SGE need potency buffs?

I think pepsis should also convert the Differential Diag shield for a bonus heal, to match emergency tactics on critlo, and also be increased a bit by the level 85 healing trait so that the healing potency at least matches the shield consumed. Currently if SGE doesn’t have pneuma it’s not possible to solo heal LD I think.

Other than that I think SGE is pretty good. SCH has its advantages but SGE’s panhaima and pneuma are really nice and easy to use too. I had SGE as my cohealer and it felt really good.

Maybe to improve its recovery Rhizomata can get 2 charges? Or increase addergalls to 4 to match the 4 weapons!

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

If anything I'm of the opposite mindset. While I still think it should recoup some of the damage cost by the barrier so it's not a total loss to use, fishing for it on a job where your barriers can be overwritten by your offhealer or while we still have Pepsis consuming the barrier without giving an Addersting is a dangerous game, especially for a healer whose management of its healing effects would be in the service of damage rather than the other way around.

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Coming from an enjoyment perspective, I like the mechanic itself and would like to use it more and unfortunately as it stands using a GCD over an oGCD is considered less efficient, so the more efficiently you're playing the less you're going to use it. I also think it pushes a wider use of your kit if we did improve Toxicon, because you're using both your GCD's and oGCD's together, instead of falling back on GCD's where you're out of oGCD's. And I think that lends better to a shield healing experience as it's another shield you can use and has the potential to crit, but is not powerful enough to be used on its own (thus other parts of your kit come in)

With the shield overwriting scenario, I feel like it would only truly be an issue in a SGE/SGE setup where you might be fighting for Toxicon procs.

A SGE/SCH set up is complementary and your SCH would ideally be making their GCD shields a low priority.

But shield overwrites aren't the end of the world, but will always be somewhat of an issue in a dual shield-healer set up and that's a small price to pay for enjoying the job role.

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I'm also considering common parlance scenarios where you only have one tank, not just EX trials and Savage raids. Wall-to-walls in dungeons come to mind, considering how much of a gamble it is with a DRK these days. Or if your offhealer dies, or you're paired with another barrier healer...

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I don't see it as that much of an issue.
For wall-to-wall pulling: it usually means your healer is struggling to keep up or your tank is squishy. That to me is the issue not Living Dead. And chances are, if you have this problem, the next pull will likely kill the tank anyway and thus should probably be doing smaller pulls. It's also rare for me to see an invuln used when this sort of thing happens.

For raids/trials, it's rare that I see tanks using their invuln outside of planned mechanics. And with a good enough healer, it's not really an issue because they'll quickly get the tank back up whilst keeping everybody else alive. I've pulled many clutches like this when the tanks have died for whatever reason.


I think it's a small issue. Even then, you can still get people's health up. You get a window of 4 GCD heals and any oGCD's you can fit in that. SGE has the bonus of spending some of that on a shield and 2 heals that add damage reduction to mitigate further incoming damage. And if we're talking about our GCD heal, if we account for the shield it has a higher healing potential than Cure II and Benefic II.

But again, if Living Dead must be better accommodated for, don't make it a healer design issue, make it a DRK design issue. If they're willing to give Clemency to PLD and Bloodwhetting to WAR, I am sure they can give DRK something too.

Heck I am sure many DRK's might appreciate being able to have more control over whether they live or die from it rather than relying on their healer's skill. And there is the scenario where your healer has died and you need to make that clutch and for other tanks their invuln skill can be a life-saver whereas for DRK they only have 10 seconds to kill the mob(s). A WAR could pop Holmgang whilst waiting for Bloodwhetting to be free and get their own health up quickly and pull through, a DRK would die in 10 secs regardless of what they do.

Most of these things don't need buffs at all, I think.

As things stand, SGE's potencies are great, with fixes needed being adjustments to other places.

Soteria's CD at 90s being one of them. It's a powerful skill, but at 90s, it feels like you're forced to think about its usage way too much for what's effectively a regen boost, raw potency aside. 60s would be where I place it.

HyoMinPark mentioned the change to Rhizomata to give addersting, which I do like. As it stands, addersting isn't worth fishing for at all, and I'd rather just hold back a Phlegma charge to use for movement instead. Despite its potency, it's not much of a loss using it outside of raid buffs anyways, as it's not like you can contribute more than three uses every two raid buff windows.

That said, I think Pepsis is a terrible ability, and wouldn't mind a complete rework of it. The potency looks alright on paper, but in actual use, I'd generally rather eat the extra GCDs and throw out some unaugmented prognosi instead. The low CD on it doesn't make up for it, and trying to be efficient by letting people get hit and eat part of a shield before using it generally just leaves you with nothing and forced to eat more resources to heal them up a different way instead. A simple fix would just be to turn it into a targetted shield on a stick. 500 or so potency shield on a 60s CD on target. Maybe have this also give an addersting if it breaks, and if SE REALLY wants it to heal, just have it so you can pop it early to give a heal for a certain amount.

Aside from that, I do think SGE does need some proper way to heal a single target. As it stands, putting aside emergency heals, SGE basically has no good way to heal up someone who was just rezzed. You might say "oh, you can just leave that to the other healer", but what if the one you rezzed IS the other healer? Especially if they have Brink of Death? I don't see them healing themself to full anytime soon unless if they're a WHM with Bene sitting around. There's a difference between being bad at something, and just plain being unable to do something, and that's something I believe SGE is sitting at.

SGE doesn't need a GOOD form of single target heals, just SOME form that doesn't take 15 GCDs to do. Maybe a Diagnosis 2 that heals for 700pot at 1k MP? 1.2k MP if you really think they shouldn't copy directly from the pure healers? I think eating that many GCDs and MP to heal someone from 1 to full is extremely painful, but worth it as a way to not throw the entire responsibility to the other healer.

Design intention seems to be that Zoe is the SGE’s answer to SCH’s Deployment Tactics.

Gained at the same level (56), both receive a cooldown reduction at the same level (88). Both have the same effect of shield strength. Pre-85, Spreadlo is a 375 shield spread. ZoE.Prog is also a 375 shield spread.

Another difference is that Zoe bundles a light-form of Recitation into it while SCH has Recitation and DT separate.

At 85+, Spreadlo is 540p and ZoE.Prog is 480p. However, I think that’s alright as the SGE/SCH really have their own kit/playstyle. SGE has a lot more stuff unbundled allowing the SGE to be more flexible and in control how It’s abilities are used. Also, SCH becomes more of an effective HP barrier healer compared to the SGE’s mitigation/heal style.

Let's be serious, Pepsis is pretty much useless. Of all the things you can possibly change on SGE, this one need a rework.

Just make it a guaranteed crit on your next heal, that would be amazing for eukra diagnosis.

When running expert roulette i'm lucky if i get two crits on eukradiagnosis in the whole run...

Toxikon definitely.

It should be more than Dosis so it's always worth using, and the drop off should make it at least equal to than Dyskrasia so it's always worth using.

320-350 range with 50% dropoff.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

-Zoe is used with pneuma to make it a 900 potency AoE heal, using it with diagnosis (not even eukrasian) is simply using it wrong and a buff + a crit would simply make it a 1260, basically a stronger essential dignity party wide with a 2m cd, let alone how then eukrasian prognosis would be very close to a deployed critdlo a feat that in order to do it consistently a Sch not only has to burn a gcd and deplo but also recitation

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IDK, had a Sage crit Euk-Diag me for well over half my HP at lvl 90 (like 60%), ilvl 570 for me. Had to have used Zoe on that one, pretty sure used Physis II as well.

That'd be great, but I doubt they'll do it. Design direction seems to be "make sure anything but spamming one boring button over and over and over again is never the better choice". All of the healer damage alternatives to their boring nuke are either long cooldowns you use immediately, or always a damage loss.

Apply that flaming trash design onto a DPS class, see how fast the forums riot/the devs change it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Toxikon definitely.

It should be more than Dosis so it's always worth using, and the drop off should make it at least equal to than Dyskrasia so it's always worth using.

320-350 range with 50% dropoff.



IDK, had a Sage crit Euk-Diag me for well over half my HP at lvl 90 (like 60%), ilvl 570 for me. Had to have used Zoe on that one, pretty sure used Physis II as well.

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Its strong but still not the optimal use, you cannot control the rng of crits so the standard is to have a gain of 420 on a single target vs the 300 party wide it has with pneuma and Eukrasian diagnosis contrary to pneuma is always a dps loss. Zoe is used with pneuma because in a raid scenario is where you get the most value out of Zoe consistently without losing dps (and even gaining if there is AoE like P3S)

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Its strong but still not the optimal use, you cannot control the rng of crits so the standard is to have a gain of 420 on a single target vs the 300 party wide it has with pneuma and Eukrasian diagnosis contrary to pneuma is always a dps loss. Zoe is used with pneuma because in a raid scenario is where you get the most value out of Zoe consistently without losing dps (and even gaining if there is AoE like P3S)

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Yeah, I understand the heal multiplied by 8 people vastly overshadows the single heal.

But damn if it wasn't nice seeing that BIG yellow bar.

Eh I just would like to see toxicon on oGCD birthday other then that they can give us it next expansion

Oh and also soteria on a 90s cd with a 50% bump not a fan of maybe either up to 100 or 60s

Just my thoughts