Let's talk about Zenos *****Spoilers******

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

He didn't only care for fighting. He only cared for fighting *you*. And that's the big difference. Once he met you, he found his match, and he was willing to do ANYTHING to have a true battle. Even if that meant removing any pesky distractions, or waiting for months or even years. He wanted a fight to the death, and he knew that if you were distracted, you weren't going to give that to him.

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I thought that too. But remember all the way back in Stormblood. How he "lived" for the moments of sparks flying. He didn't care who gave it to him as long as someone did. If so then it didn't matter if it was the WoL or someone else who is potentially as strong. The reason I believe he focused only on the WoL was because he saw the WoL as a friend.

I don't mind Xenos's story on paper but I swear whenever I go over it in my head I don't feel satisfied with how it was portrayed to us players in game. Something felt...incomplete. Like this guy was kept alive for two expansions and the reason why rings hollow to me. I suspect they hit on all the beats for him they wanted to but not in the WAY they wanted to.

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Originally Posted by Neotempest

I thought that too. But remember all the way back in Stormblood. How he "lived" for the moments of sparks flying. He didn't care who gave it to him as long as someone did. If so then it didn't matter if it was the WoL or someone else who is potentially as strong. The reason I believe he focused only on the WoL was because he saw the WoL as a friend.

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Xenos is the counterpoint to the Warrior of Light. Supposedly he is the only being as strong as them but lacks their reasons for doing what they do.

Less than any other Big Bad we face as the WoL across 2.0 to 6.0, he felt VERY 2-Dimensional to me.

My problem with Zenos was in Stormblood when he's so much more powerful than you he could kill you in 2 hits if he wanted to but doesn't cause you bore him, only for him to only be able to get hard when he's fighting you. And SINCE he's proven once he can't die even when he wants to there is no way in Hell he's really dead. If they wanted him to be a Vegeta character to our Goku they shouldn't have made him so strong. Stormblood's solo fights with him should have been more even fights like the one we have in Endwalker where it ends in a stalemate but he vows to grow stronger so we could have another good fight. We technically are all powerful atm and so a frenemy that solely exists to challenge us and push us both beyond our limits is fine... He just wasn't built up that way at the start so now it's kind of like, "ok... you're here again."

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

I don't mind Xenos's story on paper but I swear whenever I go over it in my head I don't feel satisfied with how it was portrayed to us players in game. Something felt...incomplete. Like this guy was kept alive for two expansions and the reason why rings hollow to me. I suspect they hit on all the beats for him they wanted to but not in the WAY they wanted to.



Xenos is the counterpoint to the Warrior of Light. Supposedly he is the only being as strong as them but lacks their reasons for doing what they do.

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It's what I find interesting. The chances of someone out there not being as strong as the WoL is strange. Zenos was as strong as the WoL with less experience fighting god like entities. What I am getting at is that there is no way Zenos would not run into others with near the same potential but he decided to focus his attention on the WoL only. Especially if Zenos believes he stands no chance at all in the fight. As Zenos said, he lost and knows the WoL will whoop him again if they fight. But Zenos still wants to fight, why? So why goad a fight Zenos has no chance of winning. Either he is a battle maniac, from which doesn't fit he stepping away multiple times, or he's faking being a bad guy just because he wants his "friend" to be heroic. It's why I see Zenos as confusing if you see him as meta or a battle maniac.

Battle Maniac-Knows he'll lose no matter what but will step aside because the warrior has other priorities.
Meta-Steps aside but he is evil bad guy who is evil mirror of WoL.

To me, none of this makes sense unless Zenos is a clinically depressed character who sees the WoL as a friend. A "DC" person does not get emotionally attached to people and have unhealthy habits to cope. Nor does "Willing away" a CD person work. Then there is the topic of Zenos suicide. Why would he do that? Unless he was a CD person who is afraid of not getting that "light" again. Not saying my clinically depressed theory is correct but it does fit better then, "He's just meta, don't think about it" like we have done so far. I would like someone to say, "No, I have seen some of these studies and information as well. You are just pulling on non-existent straws."

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Originally Posted by Neotempest

I thought that too. But remember all the way back in Stormblood. How he "lived" for the moments of sparks flying. He didn't care who gave it to him as long as someone did. If so then it didn't matter if it was the WoL or someone else who is potentially as strong. The reason I believe he focused only on the WoL was because he saw the WoL as a friend.

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I'm not going off of conjecture. He says as much in EW - he only has eyes for you because he found his match. The sparks wouldn't fly otherwise. He wanted a true battle with YOU because you were the only one who could give him a challenge. And that doesn't mean that others wouldn't have the same level of strength, but it's moreso about what YOU bring to the battle. He doesn't care for others because he wants to fight YOU to the death. What other motive SHOULD he have?

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Zenos is only a reflection of the player, who sits in front of the monitor. :)

Edit: but i am happy that he is finally dead. I did not like his character and there was no real character development on him. He was simply there and killed people.

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Agreed on both counts.

I'm surprised I didn't spot it until his dialog near the very end where he asks us about our nature and the game gives us choices that only embrace the of us also being driven by violence...

But yes, he's SE's commentary on the gamer playing the game. He's not a reflection of our character, he's what 'really motivates' a lot of gamers - or so we tend to think - a desire for action gaming; plot regardless.

And I'm also glad he's gone, again, for now. Because his development was always too shallow and too much of a distraction from the plot. Now that I think I see what he was meant to represent I'm not sure how that idea could have been done better as I'm not sure the concept really "has legs"... I think it might have better been just avoided.

Zenos bought a level and story skip, and so in the end - he didn't get much story and didn't get much out of the game. And now he's unsubbed.

I think Zenos simply overstayed his welcome. We fought him several times throughout Stormblood, he was the last boss of a dungeon, he fused with Shinryu (itself a bit of a violation of his character— he seemed unlike the sort to cheat power), we fought him again as not-Zenos while “he” was out doing whatever in another body. Oh, and we fought him as other characters, too.

I’m glad we didn’t have multiple rematches with him in Endwalker, but I can tell the temptation was always there to overuse him again.

If anything, I’m glad they only gave us one fight with him that mattered rather than three that didn’t. I don’t think the scene on the moon, for example, would have been any better if we’d crossed swords with Zenos before Fanny jumped off the high dive. If anything, it was more fun for Fanny to interrupt us with promises he’d be “brief.” I don't think the scene where Zenos in late Garlemald would be improved, either-- it would actually compromise his appearance in the scene.

In a game that generally tries to humanize its villains and at least make us understand them, if not sympathize with them, Zenos is really boring and 1 dimensional. I'm glad he's dead and I hope he does not come back.

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Originally Posted by MaelleRiou

In a game that generally tries to humanize its villains and at least make us understand them, if not sympathize with them, Zenos is really boring and 1 dimensional. I'm glad he's dead and I hope he does not come back.

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If you like, you can go back to my post on page 1 to understand Zenos. He can be understood. It doesn't mean you need to agree with his mindset but he's not a single dimensional character, he is only 1D to you because you don't comprehend his thought process. Personally I'm disappointed that the fight was where it was and incredibly boring / easy to complete. The cutscene afterwards was good but the fight was 2 / 10.