Revelations (and Feedback) from Pandæmonium: Asphodelos

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Lahabrea's... predecessor(? and wife?), the previous chief keyward, was Athena so we can rule her out from our Olympians = Convocation... sorta.

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I’m also leaning towards

this Lahabrea (Erichthonios’s father) being the predecessor to the Lahabrea we know. He’s described by Erichthonios and Themis as seeming cold and withdrawn, which doesn’t really align with Emet-Selch’s and Elidibus’s recollections of our Lahabrea pre-sundering (a popular orator who not only sponsored Elidibus’s Convocation nomination but actively expressed concern over him working too hard). But having introduced more time travel, anything’s possible lol.

I was excited to potentially learn more about the person Lahabrea used to be before he spiraled into madman body-hopping antics, so I do hope we see some of that

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

I'm curious about Themis.

He's clearly Elidibus, since he had Elidibus's voice actor in his voiced cutscene at the end of the MSQ's credits. Yet despite wearing the white robes of the Emissary, he doesn't have a red mask. But during the Elpis MSQ they alluded to the short story with Azem and the grapes, in which he was already Elidibus, so he should already be Elidibus here. Plus he already knows Azem. Is he undercover, explaining why he's using his real name and a white mask? But then why wear the white robes and not black?

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I think it can be assumed after EW that white robes signify a type of civil service job that requires the wearer to be a fair/impartial judge in matters of conflict or arbitration. Elidibus as Emissary would wear them and perhaps also Azem.

My guess is Themis hasn’t taken the seat of Elidibus yet, but the organization of which he’s part is involved in peacekeeping and order, which would require some or all of its members be deemed fit to wear white. We may have gone back in time to a period BEFORE the events of MSQ, or Elidibus is in fact “undercover” in order to investigate, but still requires the white uniform to more easily carry out his task.

I found it interesting right away that Lahabrea plays such a big role in this part considering he represents the Esper/Lucavi Mateaus, whom was named for the emperor of Final Fantasy 2. Obviously a Satan boss fight coming up among other hell monstrosities. I wonder how many floors this place has exactly, I might have missed that detail. Could give meaning to the phrase “7 hells” lol, or be 9 layers of hell as in the divine comedy.

Miss Ryne and Gaia tho…

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

But during the Elpis MSQ they alluded to the short story with Azem and the grapes, in which he was already Elidibus, so he should already be Elidibus here. Plus he already knows Azem. Is he undercover, explaining why he's using his real name and a white mask? But then why wear the white robes and not black?

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I'm not discounting the possibility that he is already Elidibus and is conducting a "plainclothes" investigation, but do you remember which Elpis quest referenced the volcano grapes? I remember a Labyrinthos quest with Cookingway where Cookingway asks, "But tell me, what is your opinion of grapes?" and WoX can reply with, "I'd brave an erupting volcano for a choice bunch!" but if it was also mentioned in Elpis I don't remember it.

/hb10chars

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Originally Posted by Uboar

I’m also leaning towards

this Lahabrea (Erichthonios’s father) being the predecessor to the Lahabrea we know. He’s described by Erichthonios and Themis as seeming cold and withdrawn, which doesn’t really align with Emet-Selch’s and Elidibus’s recollections of our Lahabrea pre-sundering (a popular orator who not only sponsored Elidibus’s Convocation nomination but actively expressed concern over him working too hard). But having introduced more time travel, anything’s possible lol.

I was excited to potentially learn more about the person Lahabrea used to be before he spiraled into madman body-hopping antics, so I do hope we see some of that

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In response to your theory...

This is a possibility. I wouldn't be surprised if Erichthonios ends up taking over as Lahabrea himself.

Also, why do you still need 10 characters just because you hid text in a spoiler. XD

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Yeah, name talk:

Themis is the Greek goddess of justice/law/order.

Hesperos is the Greek personification of the evening star (Venus). As I'm sure most of us know, the evening star is associated in the Bible with Lucifer. So it makes sense for him to be the villain of a raid themed around the nine circles of hell.

With Erichthonios being Lahabrea's son, Lahabrea's real name is likely Hephaestus. Erichthonios of Athens was the son of Hephaestus and Athena. Also Hephaestus is the god of the forge, which parallels Lahabrea being the Convocation's master of creation magic.

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This is so cool on just so many levels.

I want to know about the time travel rules.

Have we managed to set up a stable time loop now, where we always told Venat about the Final Days and the Sundering and so forth, and always fixed whatever went wrong in Pandemonium?

How does that square with G'raha somehow being able to permanently change his own future? And still being around?

Were they lying when they said "Don't change the past, or you can't go back to your present?" Or when they said "you have to change the past, or we'll all always have been dead"? Or are they somehow both correct?

I know "poorly explained time travel" is a series trope, going all the way back to the very first Final Fantasy ... but I'd love a coherent explanation.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I want to know about the time travel rules.

Have we managed to set up a stable time loop now, where we always told Venat about the Final Days and the Sundering and so forth, and always fixed whatever went wrong in Pandemonium?

How does that square with G'raha somehow being able to permanently change his own future? And still being around?

Were they lying when they said "Don't change the past, or you can't go back to your present?" Or when they said "you have to change the past, or we'll all always have been dead"? Or are they somehow both correct?

I know "poorly explained time travel" is a series trope, going all the way back to the very first Final Fantasy ... but I'd love a coherent explanation.

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XIV seems to operate on the concept of time being a closed circle where you can't actually change anything because all of the time travel has already happened; with the added caveat that the alternate timelines simply split off into their own realities instead of ceasing to exist, hence why G'raha did not disappear after preventing the calamity that created his timeline.

The Sharlayans don't exactly have first-hand experience with time travel like we did with Alexander and Elpis so they probably don't realize that history has already been writ.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

In response to your theory...

This is a possibility. I wouldn't be surprised if Erichthonios ends up taking over as Lahabrea himself.

Also, why do you still need 10 characters just because you hid text in a spoiler. XD

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That's my speculation too.

It would be a stealth way of getting an entire raid's worth of characterization in for Lahabrea, who had been reduced to the stereotypical cackling villain by the time we met him in ARR. Getting to know and like Erichthonios over the course of the raid, and then realizing how far he fell to become the Ascian we knew, would definitely be heart-breaking storytelling, and add levels of depth to Lahabrea's past experiences even more than, say, the reveal of Fandaniel recontextualized Amon.

Re: speculation

I also started to wonder that during the questline. I'm not sure if I'm completely sold on it, but I think I'm also leaning toward Erichthonios being the Lahabrea we knew.

Although lahabrea is supposed to be the position for someone excelling in creation magicks while so far (it could change) Eric isn't much of a mage.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

I'm not discounting the possibility that he is already Elidibus and is conducting a "plainclothes" investigation, but do you remember which Elpis quest referenced the volcano grapes? I remember a Labyrinthos quest with Cookingway where Cookingway asks, "But tell me, what is your opinion of grapes?" and WoX can reply with, "I'd brave an erupting volcano for a choice bunch!" but if it was also mentioned in Elpis I don't remember it.

/hb10chars

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I swear I remember Hythlodaeus mentioning something like "that time Azem ran off to stop a volcano" during Elpis but now I'm wondering if I mixed that up with the Cookingway dialogue.