PvP Rewards; 6.1 and beyond.

Been argued to death. Purists who live and breathe this game mode will beg Square not to take away their goodies expecting it to be given out for free. As long as it isn't the trophies, who honestly cares as long as there's effort to put in? Square has the final say at the end of the day. I think it's pretty ironic that people will cite multitudes of reasons for why Feast never picked up without looking at the systems in place themselves. It took them how many years to finally rework this? The fact they even had to shelf Feast just so they could spark SOME kind of interest in PvP? A cornerstone for any MMO worth it's salt? Surely they didn't just want Frontlines to be the be all end all, right?

Some guy pointing fingers at PvP player: "Why do you play only for exclusive rewards, it proves that you don't like the game mode"
the same guy: "We need all exclusive rewards from the past in the new game mode accessible like moogle tomestones, else I won't play it, I also hate PvP and don't care about the mode"

Ye, no.

The reward system will be changed, it's a good change. Don't shit on old players who kept the mode alive and enjoyed doing so to some degree. Rarity is good, else all is meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Rarity is good, else all is meaningless.

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The sheer number of people who's favorite mounts in the game are the goofy ass common ones like fat chocobo, and how easy it is to start a fat chocobo parade in this game begs to differ. There is no resource limit on digital items, artificially enforced rarity only exists to make people feel something is more impressive or rare than it is. Whereas if everything is infinite then the community self selects and the people who care about being special snowflakes who only use things no one has or uses can do so, while those who just care about what they think looks cool can do so without feeling the overbearing pressure to become the top one hundred in a PVP game mode filled to the brim with cheaters.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Don't shit on old players who kept the mode alive and enjoyed doing so to some degree. Rarity is good, else all is meaningless.

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Our journey is important! Each step we take and the people we meet along the way. I'm surprised you say what you do; the old rewards were and are tainted. So many people are in the know now even people who don't PvP at that MMR range are in the know. Lots of people don't wear or use their items due to shame. I hope they are rereleased so that PvP players can enjoy their awesome PvP rewards again. I love PvP in FFXIV, so I will talk about it like it has meaning to me.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

The sheer number of people who's favorite mounts in the game are the goofy ass common ones like fat chocobo, and how easy it is to start a fat chocobo parade in this game begs to differ.

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There are like 200 mounts in this game, you telling me they need the 5 PvP mounts to enjoy the game? You are telling me everybody needs access to every item in the game, why would I login if everything is easy to obtain, it would be so unchallenging then!?
I probably will never do the mentor or hunting mounts, it is just outside of my scope and I'm fine with it. I can look at them and think "wow this guy had a tremendous amount of dedication to reach his goal" and I won't be like "omg why isn't it available to me too, I don't have enough time, I can't do this, it is too hard for me, where is the easy way to get this"
And what is wrong with pressure? It is PvP, that is what you sign up for, it is not supposed to be easy. PvE or Crafting/Gathering has way more cheater than PvP. Why is it an issue only for PvP, we aren't giving ultimate weapons out for moogle tomestones because people botted in TEA and UcoB or are we?

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Originally Posted by brancinaed

the old rewards were and are tainted. So many people are in the know now even people who don't PvP at that MMR range are in the know. Lots of people don't wear or use their items due to shame.

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Why? Who? What? The stuff you say is so made up, I don't know a single person who was not using his reward. What even is your main character? The one displayed here is maxed at lvl60, did you even play any season in the last 6 years on Primal or is this post just bait? :/

Rewards from pvp related achievements should carry over. Afterall this was made with the design it could be done at any time.
Rewards for top 100 and such shouldn't. These were specifically intended to be time limited rewards and should stay as such.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

PvE or Crafting/Gathering has way more cheater than PvP. Why is it an issue only for PvP, we aren't giving ultimate weapons out for moogle tomestones because people botted in TEA and UcoB or are we?


Why? Who? What? The stuff you say is so made up, I don't know a single person who was not using his reward. What even is your main character? The one displayed here is maxed at lvl60, did you even play any season in the last 6 years on Primal or is this post just bait? :/

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Why? Because of the breaking of the rules by so many players for ranking rewards. Who? Very many of the players in the small community that is high ranked PvP. It was unavoidable encountering someone breaking the T.O.S. each game above 1500 rating. Above 2000 points I guess 3/4 of players were breaking the rules. What? It's talked about a lot among the high ranked players across all data centers. If you were ignorant of this now you are in the know. You and I both have played in this environment so I remain surprised you think it's exclusive to one data center or another.

When I think about PvP with new, and old, friends in the future I hope our conversations can be like, "Where do I get that cool item you have?" and I can reply "Come play PvP with me to earn yours!"

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

You are telling me everybody needs access to every item in the game

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Yes

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

why would I login if everything is easy to obtain, it would be so unchallenging then!?

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If simply having the opportunity to obtain items without them vanishing overnight is enough to make you question why you bother to play the game, then yeah I wonder why you log in too.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

I probably will never do the mentor or hunting mounts, it is just outside of my scope and I'm fine with it. I can look at them and think "wow this guy had a tremendous amount of dedication to reach his goal" and I won't be like "omg why isn't it available to me too, I don't have enough time, I can't do this, it is too hard for me, where is the easy way to get this"

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Okay but the difference is that they don't then go "okay we're getting rid of the mentor and hunt mounts next week guys, get them while you can!". You seem to think that just because people want them to keep these items in the game, they want them easily and for free - which based on the posts I've seen in this thread, and other similar threads, simply isn't true. People just don't like the fact that the feast rewards literally became unavailable forever after an arbitrary point of time. Combine that with the awful reward system and how many servers had open cheaters gate keeping those rewards, you just got a lot of people not even bothering to play it. It isn't a question of whether or not it's easy or hard to get the feast items. It's a problem of the feast being a badly curated mode poisoned by its reward system.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

And what is wrong with pressure? It is PvP, that is what you sign up for, it is not supposed to be easy.

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Neither are ultimate raids but there isn't a hard time limit on how long people have to earn ultimate raid rewards before they vanish into the ether forever.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

PvE or Crafting/Gathering has way more cheater than PvP. Why is it an issue only for PvP, we aren't giving ultimate weapons out for moogle tomestones because people botted in TEA and UcoB or are we?

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Because when someone cheats in PVE it doesn't literally exclude legitimate players from earning those rewards like it did in the feast where people would bot, win trade, and other dubious things - often on multiple characters - thus ensuring they could block out as many legitimate players as possible from earning those extremely limited rewards. Meanwhile someone could literally hack the game and clear the ultimate raids a thousand times a day and it wouldn't matter. It doesn't stop anyone else from getting their rewards fair and square.



The issue you don't seem to understand is that it isn't "PVP" that's the problem, it's entirely the feast's poor structure that was and rather than support and reinforce the PVP they already had they spent way too long trying to support a mode that was dying from day one by pouring as many unique resources into it as they could, unique resources that are now just gone. They're not on the moogle shop - like event items go - they're not obtainable in-game by other means. They're just gone. That's a waste of artwork and item alike, to say nothing of how much of an extra waste it is when you factor in the cheating, abuse and exploitation that went on in The Feast.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

If simply having the opportunity to obtain items without them vanishing overnight is enough to make you question why you bother to play the game, then yeah I wonder why you log in too.

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I don't login atm tbh. How you worded it makes it sound like PvP is unchallenging, going against other players always has some difficulty, PvE can never deliver that as it is scripted fights more or less.
If PvP rewards would have been easy to get in the past, I probably wouldn't have bothered. The time exclusivity isn't really the point, but without a reward incentive, people won't try hard to win and then you won't get quality matches. For many players it is hard to accept that there is an inherent difference between PvP and PvE anyway, as if it has to play according to the same rules as PvE content that can be outleveled.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

they want them easily and for free - which based on the posts I've seen in this thread, and other similar threads, simply isn't true. People just don't like the fact that the feast rewards literally became unavailable forever after an arbitrary point of time.

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Maybe we haven't read the same, but many are asking for handouts. And even those who don't, they realize that it is hard to create a system that encourages a similar effort made.
Wolfmarks are not suitable, you get them by being afk in frontline...
Wolf collars are not really either, as you get them already for bronze, which even a bot can get (unless they change it to gold/plat minimum).
Some seasons you had a floor of 1400(gold) other seasons 2200, they were more competitive, if you normalize that, the specific difficulty of past seasons will vanish. These 1400/1500 rated bottom seasons are proof that people just didn't care about top100, it was extremely possible to get high gold rating even for firsttimer.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

Combine that with the awful reward system and how many servers had open cheaters gate keeping those rewards, you just got a lot of people not even bothering to play it. It isn't a question of whether or not it's easy or hard to get the feast items. It's a problem of the feast being a badly curated mode poisoned by its reward system.

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The reward system was bad, yes, but SE received feedback since like season 1 to change it. But they only introduced max rating and made it easier to climb into diamond, it didn't change much for players out of top100, as the wolf collar shop wasn't so attractive.
What numbers are you thinking of, that you think cheaters are able to gatekeep you from those rewards? The last seasons, Primal was bad and blatantly obvious, but usually you end up with like 0-5 cheater/wintrader/booster per season in other dc I know of. How are 5% of the people stopping you from getting a top100 place? I think that is just an excuse to make it seem bad.

Nevertheless SE could have handled the few cases better, but they aren't really bothering with cheaters, there were enough reports. I think it would be unfair if you blame and punish the players for a 'badly curated mode' as you put it.

They are committed to PvP, how would you keep a mode alive for over 6/7 years, when you have limited resources for development? Ranked PvP basically got something like half a mountmodel/glam set per year on average, it's nothing compared to everything else in the game. And I don't see an issue with items no longer obtainable, there are other items outside of PvP like that too. And if you wanna talk about wasted potential in this game you could write a whole book anyway. Idk when I look at WoW and they have like 50 or more mounts that nobody can get anymore, partially Ranked PvP mounts too, then FFXIV has it a lot better already. And when I would see one of them in WoW, I would be happy to see a player still playing who played back then, I wouldn't get this feeling if 20% of all people would have the mount/glam.

They can start anew now with the new mode, priority on 'fun'. I fear though, it will be too casual or messy for ranked, if you don't need a healer in the new mode... We will see. If they do bring old rewards back as their "new content" and make it casual/forgiving for bad players, then I don't think many current PvP players would find it interesting.

Dewslam couldnt have said better