Puppetmaster

Best you'll get for doing current content as PUP plus expounding upon having different automaton models is to make it a EW SMN clone where you swap between the various models as you go through your rotation. FFXI style PUP will end up like FFXI BLU, the best, interesting and most expounded upon iterations of the jobs that won't be found anywhere else unfortunately. Hopefully with XIVs newly added resources they can do something with meatier limited jobs, like make them limited with their own systems but then also give them a trinity defined version of the Job alongside of those unique systems and styles of play, so that BLUs PUPs and BSTs can have their cake and eat it too. That would amount to a large amount of work but assuming they'll be able to spare no expense going forward, it will hopefully manifest in being able to hire more Devs to make moonshot ideas like that happen.

I wouldn't mind more limited jobs as I see them as side content. I'm not going to raid with more than a couple of my favorite jobs anyway so more normal jobs don't do much for me unless I like them more than what I currently play.

Puppetmaster would be a great option for limited, they could do a lot with how parts are obtained and used. Collecting those would be plenty of fun on its own imo. Then if we do get more limited jobs would they be able to party together? That could be cool.

If it were to be a normal job I think it'd be a good opportunity to break some boundaries rather than having it be a somewhat different version of what's already available. It could be an All-Rounder able to fill any role based on how the puppet's set up and still have some degree of part collecting (mostly through job quests) though once it's in an instance it'd be more or less like any other job just heavily focused on the puppet. Which sounds like a nightmare tbh lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

RDM has been pretty well received though. To myself and others it is a red mage in the sense of 14's world. It uses white magic (earth, aero, holy, cure, and raise), black magic (fire, thunder, and flare), and utilizes sword attacks. I do wish there was more melee gameplay to it but it does fit the definition of red mage.

To those of us against limited jobs, yes there's blue mage content in the game but we still desire there to be a proper job we can play the game with in the same manner as we can with the combat jobs. We understand that some things will have to be changed but still desire that core fantasy of the jobs. I'm assuming this point will fall flat in your eyes but that's the same with the point you are making.

---

I'm not saying it hasn't been well recieved.
I like the job (although I wish it were a bit faster paced)
But all it has as red is as you said, the use of white and black, but this is restricted to only offensive skills with one weak heal for the sake of having it.

It does fit the definition of red mage, but a lot has been cut.
That's my point.

You could make BLU as a real job, select around 24 iconic skills, maybe more as some would turn into different one like some sort of combo sequence.(like Bahamut > Pheonix) Make it so that your job quest would be to go around and kill monsters to get more spells and voila.
You have a BLU. Ff14 style.
I mean it got bad breath ... BLU right?

If you consider ff14 RDM to be a proper RDM then you can't argue it wouldn't be a BLU mage as it would have monster smells. , but the core aspect of collecting spells and making your weird mix would be lost specifically because it has to fit all the"true job" restriction, the first being "balance"
For the same reason you can't have medica on your RDM

We could still hold the "go around and collect spells" but that would fall flat very fast. Once you're done collecting your 24 mandatory spells you're in to wait for 2 years before you can go collect your 2-3 new shiny spells.

However, due to its limited nature BLU brought a form of unexpected content. There are a lot of BLU enthusiastic which properly raid as BLU. And these are far more exotic and memorable things to do than if BLU were a regular job specifically because you're playing as a group of 8 clunky mess.

With the current system at least each new addition brings more. (Altough they need to stop with the 220 potency spammable spell ...)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

RDM has been pretty well received though. To myself and others it is a red mage in the sense of 14's world. It uses white magic (earth, aero, holy, cure, and raise), black magic (fire, thunder, and flare), and utilizes sword attacks. I do wish there was more melee gameplay to it but it does fit the definition of red mage.

To those of us against limited jobs, yes there's blue mage content in the game but we still desire there to be a proper job we can play the game with in the same manner as we can with the combat jobs. We understand that some things will have to be changed but still desire that core fantasy of the jobs. I'm assuming this point will fall flat in your eyes but that's the same with the point you are making.

---

I'm not saying it hasn't been well recieved.
I like the job (although I wish it were a bit faster paced)
But all it has as red is as you said, the use of white and black, but this is restricted to only offensive skills with one weak heal for the sake of having it.

It does fit the definition of red mage, but a lot has been cut.
That's my point.

You could make BLU as a real job, select around 24 iconic skills, maybe more as some would turn into different one like some sort of combo sequence.(like Bahamut > Pheonix) Make it so that your job quest would be to go around and kill monsters to get more spells and voila.
You have a BLU. Ff14 style.
I mean it got bad breath ... BLU right?

If you consider ff14 RDM to be a proper RDM then you can't argue it wouldn't be a BLU mage as it would have monster smells. , but the core aspect of collecting spells and making your weird mix would be lost specifically because it has to fit all the"true job" restriction, the first being "balance"
For the same reason you can't have medica on your RDM

We could still hold the "go around and collect spells" but that would fall flat very fast. Once you're done collecting your 24 mandatory spells you're in to wait for 2 years before you can go collect your 2-3 new shiny spells.

However, due to its limited nature BLU brought a form of unexpected content. There are a lot of BLU enthusiastic which properly raid as BLU. And these are far more exotic and memorable things to do than if BLU were a regular job specifically because you're playing as a group of 8 clunky mess.

With the current system at least each new addition brings more. (Altough they need to stop with the 220 potency spammable spell ...)

To le pup is more a matter of when than if.
But I would be extremely surprised to see it as a real job

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylvain

The issue is that what you want falls into the limited job categorie.

So either they make it a limited job with all the proper fantasy around it sg the cost of not being usable in current content, or they make a fake similinlike RDM for instance which can do current content.

By that I mean, ff14 RDM is a red mage just in visual, (white and black offensive magic). It has 1 heal ... For the sake of having it and can spam rez.. but usually RDM are much more versatile. They can dps and heal. Ff14 RDM can dps and rez... And maybe do a bit of single target heal for emergency.... But beside dungeon and Ex trial you're not gonna keep more than 1 person alive with vercure..
RDM is a DPS, and nothing more (fine rez is useful). And it is a main job because they cut all the white magic aspect of it, beside the offensive spell

So compromise has to be done somewhere. For BLU they went full fantasy route and made it limited. I believe they'll do the same for Beastmsster and Puppeteers. But if they don't, well don't expect much beside cool visual. It will be 24 skills with a fixed rotation and that's it.

---

Agreed, ffxiv red mage is a red mage visually but not a real red mage, red mage is supposed to be very versatile, being able to heal or dps or tank if needed

I feel that xiv red mage is the worst red mage in the final fantasy series


I enjoy FFXI red mage, they heal, rez, strong enfeebling magics, can use a sword, staff, shield, knife, club,strong support and debuffing magiks

FFXIV red mage cant hold a candle to the other red mages

I wish red mage was a red mage and not just a dps but thats what happens when you simplify the jobs to the lowest common denominator

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylvain

I'm not saying it hasn't been well recieved.
I like the job (although I wish it were a bit faster paced)
But all it has as red is as you said, the use of white and black, but this is restricted to only offensive skills with one weak heal for the sake of having it.

It does fit the definition of red mage, but a lot has been cut.
That's my point.

You could make BLU as a real job, select around 24 iconic skills, maybe more as some would turn into different one like some sort of combo sequence.(like Bahamut > Pheonix) Make it so that your job quest would be to go around and kill monsters to get more spells and voila.
You have a BLU. Ff14 style.
I mean it got bad breath ... BLU right?

If you consider ff14 RDM to be a proper RDM then you can't argue it wouldn't be a BLU mage as it would have monster smells. , but the core aspect of collecting spells and making your weird mix would be lost specifically because it has to fit all the"true job" restriction, the first being "balance"
For the same reason you can't have medica on your RDM

We could still hold the "go around and collect spells" but that would fall flat very fast. Once you're done collecting your 24 mandatory spells you're in to wait for 2 years before you can go collect your 2-3 new shiny spells.

However, due to its limited nature BLU brought a form of unexpected content. There are a lot of BLU enthusiastic which properly raid as BLU. And these are far more exotic and memorable things to do than if BLU were a regular job specifically because you're playing as a group of 8 clunky mess.

With the current system at least each new addition brings more. (Altough they need to stop with the 220 potency spammable spell ...)

---

Well in your post on the first page, you said that 14's rdm was just rdm in visual so I was attempting to counter that point. I do agree with what you said here though of wishing that rdm was more. Still, the fact is that it is a rdm job though just using the definitions for white and black magic as they are in 14's world.

To myself and others, a blue mage just needs to use enemy skills. How you learn them isn't too important since there's been various methods in the franchise. You could keep the current method or just have full blu unlock after completing a certain stage of the carnivale.

You have a point that future expacs would mostly be blue mage going out and learning a few new spells that would function as the updates many jobs are seeing now. Functionally the same ability/spell but with higher potency or becoming AoE with fall off damage. Those of us asking for full blue mage understand that and still desire to be able to main the job in the content that we want to do.

That's fine that there are people that enjoy blue mage as it is. There are not many on my side that want limited blu to receive no future updates or be scrapped entirely. Right now we have blue mage "side content" in the game and we would like to have blue mage "the combat job". Some of us would engage more with the current blue mage content if it didn't come with the price tag of the job we want to play as being used as the delivery method for that content. We want to see that be changed. That could be some kind of toggle to switch between the two modes, a completely separate job stone, or just have the full version of the job be unlocked through some completion of the limited content.

Like if beast master was added as a limited job in 6.4 and they also announced that completing the limited bst content up through say level 80 would allow a balanced version to be used as a full job come the 7.0 expac then you would have many on my side say that we can accept that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon041065

To myself and others, a blue mage just needs to use enemy skills. How you learn them isn't too important since there's been various methods in the franchise.

---

But to many it is important, to many having the current implementation of the BLU is really important, above being able to do current content.
I'd rather have a full job too but many don't. Many just want the flavor above all else and it matters a lot because it is the very reason why they implemented BLU as limited instead of not at all.

Quote:

---

that could be some kind of toggle to switch between the two modes, a completely separate job stone

---

well, if that were to happen, it won't be before LONG because there are so many jobs that already could be implemented, if they were to add "BLU" as an actual caster (or tank, or heal... probably tank or dps tho). Altough the animation would already been done, designing an engaging rotation would still take nearly as much time as creating a new job from scratch.

Heck, perhaps it would even be harder simply because BLU is just a mess by design. Making a cohesive dps rotation with a bunch of random spell might actually be harder than designing something from scratch like the Repear.

Then the issue with doing such thing would be, what about the other jobs? what about RDM? BST, PUP, what about any other job that could fit that limited job fantasy?

To me that's a can of worm they simply won't open.
At least I wouldn't.

We can agree or disagree with their choice of making limited job.

Personally I'd rather have them as limited than not at all, which was their stance when asked during HW. Same goes for BST PUP and whatnot.

There are things that I wish blue did better, more specifically more interaction with spell and less "220 spammable ST/AoE spell with 50% falloff".
But overall the addition of new skills make it all the more fun to play in older content.
But that's a different topic.

I'll stop here but my bottom line is, I don't think it is realistic to expect the BLU to become an actual job, I mean not in a near future anyway (and by near I mean anything before 8.0 at this point). When it comes to PUP and BST I could be wrong, they could be released as full job, but Y.P hinted that they'd be nice Limited, I would also pick those as new limited for the same reason they have chosen BLU (because you can't have the fantasy and full job at the same time, you're gonna have to cut somewhere).

There are a million "what if they'd do that" or "they could do that" to make BLU or PUP or BST as real job, but in the end, they probably won't because they've make up their mind. BLU is limited and will always be, BST and PUP will probably be limited (BST is almost confirmed from an interview) so it's more a matter of when than if and that's it.

If anything proposing new ideas to enhance blu as a limited job will be more productive. But that's just me.

All I know is I'm glad we got Summoner and Red Mage added before limited jobs became a thing, since the limited job crowd would rather find ways to make jobs limited than to have cool jobs for normal group play. Now it feels that anything that slightly diverges from the norm "can only!" be added as a limited job in their eyes instead of finding a reasonable compromise.

"Red mage isn't a red mage" please. Red mage is one of the more thematically on point jobs in this game and it's widely regarded as extremely fun to play. A Blue Mage that learned its abilities through job quest battles would have been so much more enjoyable than the minigame we got instead. As stated previously some us of would like to actually play Blue Mage -the job- not the minigame.

Just like some of us would prefer Puppetmaster or Beastmaster -the job- not the minigame locked to doing old content we've already beaten.

Learning blue mage though quests just so it can fit in this homogenized role that the other basic, boring rotation jobs have?

Blue is made to be gimmicky , random, use every spell it knows and be unbalanced. If blue mage was shoehorn into a regular job, it wouldn't be a blue mage but a boring generic caster

Also its odd that red mages in other ff games get cure really early but ffxiv gets cure very late in game

Red mage is fun but pressing the same boring rotation over and over again isn't

But i guess thats why ffxiv is a theme park mmo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Learning blue mage though quests just so it can fit in this homogenized role that the other basic, boring rotation jobs have?

Blue is made to be gimmicky , random, use every spell it knows and be unbalanced. If blue mage was shoehorn into a regular job, it wouldn't be a blue mage but a boring generic caster

Also its odd that red mages in other ff games get cure really early but ffxiv gets cure very late in game

Red mage is fun but pressing the same boring rotation over and over again isn't

But i guess thats why ffxiv is a theme park mmo

---

Every other job is built off pressing the same "boring" rotation over and over again. That is literally the point. This is a group game. It is not a solo game. Even Blue Mage has a meta rotation, though I suppose one has the option to be *unique* and ignore it, likely to the rest of the party's detriment. What you have in Blue Mage is the illusion of choice, just like in WoW, where they give you a lot of options but at the end of the day there is one better way to optimize your character.

And yes, a Blue Mage regular job would have been used exponentially used more by the general playerbase because Blue Mage -the minigame- is built off of fomo. You have 2 weeks to learn the latest spells. After that? Good luck. Everyone else will have already moved on. Then you can only use them in carnival fights (which they are running out of ideas for) or moogle events. To get rewards a huge chunk of people already own.

Gacha limited time events last longer than Blue Mage updates. We do not need to shackle another job to a system that proves just how ephemeral it is time and time again.