Some healers are taking the entire ogcd heal thing to the extreme.

the real question is, why would YOU spam heals when people are at 50%? unless they're wearing garbage for gear, even another raidwide probably wouldn't kill most members of your party at half health

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Originally Posted by andrealfus

the real question is, why would YOU spam heals when people are at 50%? unless they're wearing garbage for gear, even another raidwide probably wouldn't kill most members of your party at half health

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Especially with Eos spot healing everyone.

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Originally Posted by Miziliti

It's near the end of SHB. I'm starting to get fed up with it because I keep encountering more and more Glare mages who refused to even cast medica on a raid wide aoe when lilies and assize are on cool down. It used to be selfish SCHs (in HW) behave this way acting like a DPS, but after SHB, more and more WHMs just wants to Glare.

I've seen this extreme case multiple times in neir raid with first time players in party lately. One time I had to pretty much suffer as a SCH spamming shield, indom, and fairy on cd because this Glare mage won't heal the party past 50% without lilies. The Lily system might need a nerf if there are players acting like hard cast healing spell is a sin or something. Really threw the whole teamwork out of the window.

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You've got it all backwards.

It's natural for people to play this game and to want to improve how they play and get better at the game.

Due to the way this game is designed the only meaningful metric on how well your party is doing is the overall damage dealt over time by your party or alliance. The game is also scripted and healing requirements are low so what does this mean? If you're sitting at 50% health or below then chances are it's fine and your healer will have you covered by the time you're going to take more damage or enough damage to die.

And it's not selfish because sometimes the best defense is a good offense and that rings true in this game because it can mean people survive DPS checks, avoid enrage times and can kill stuff quicker so they don't end up contributing more damage.

Then add that it can be more efficient to let people's health drop and more efficient to use your GCD's.

But the reality is, your healer is unlikely wanting to sit there casting Glare all the time. It's actually really, really boring.

And in a way you're preaching to the choir even though you have the wrong idea about it, because hey, we've been asking for more to do. But Yoshi P this week has pretty much said this is intentional, though they have expressed a desire to make healing more intensive, but as their claim was 5.x onwards, they've yet to achieve it.

Now your argument might be "use other healing spells and keep us to 100%" but that's actually a waste and if the answer to a problem is "play less well" it is not good design. But the reward for playing healing jobs well is a Glare spam...which is not really a reward.


If people are dying then yet, they're over doing it then I can understand they're doing it wrong, but given you're made no reference to people dying and that they're only letting your HP drop and stay below 50% you might actually have skilled healers healing you and not people playing the jobs badly. I think in most game it might seem careless, but encounters are scripted and predictable so it's not.

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Originally Posted by Miziliti

Really threw the whole teamwork out of the window.

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Healbots throw teamwork out the window when they immediately spam heals because people are at 50%.

Ask yourself:
When's the next raidwide? Are the party even in any danger within the next 20 seconds or so?
When's their next Assize and might they be waiting on a lily coming off cd soon?
Are there any HoT's, such as Asylum active?
Do you really need to be spamming Succor + Indom and why is your fairy on cooldown? Why didn't you let them heal when they had lilies, then step in when their resources ran out?
Is Succor+Indom+fairy really necessary in Nier for a group at 50%? Many raidwides can be handled by Whispering Dawn or one Indom alone, maybe with a Fey blessing to supplement it.

Teamwork is about knowing how your co-healer works and managing your resources together so they don't conflict. If you wasted all yours when they had lilies, don't complain when they aren't GCD spamming to cover your mistake later.

Also Medica II is more dps potency loss than Indom, Consolation or even a Succor. If you absolutely need a GCD heal, take one for the team.

A cohealer who doesn’t contribute to healing needs to be called out…

…but as a Glare Mage myself who does in fact contribute to half the required healing, I think it would be remiss to not offer the same issue from my perspective:

I only ever see SCHs or ASTs complain about my or other WHMs’ Glam spam when they themselves have poor resources management for their healing. When I put my Plenary up 2 GCDs ago because I lack weaving windows I am clearly indicating I’m going to Rapture, my cohealer will often Sacred Soil and Succor on top of my Plenary before the raidwide and Whispering Dawn and Indom after it. These are the healers who complain and think I’m not healing. They stack their resources and run out of anything other than their GCDs when I’ve been calculating half the required healing the entire time, then think I’m the problem.

Understand my kit and yours: personal DPS is literally all I’ve got going for me as WHM—finally WHM is the best at *something* for healers since ARR.

And I only have two oGCD aoe heals and only one is used for its healing by the way. I can’t be taking this oGCD thing too seriously if for me they barely exist.

Me, watching this guy get roasted: And me without my popcorn...

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Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

Me, watching this guy get roasted: And me without my popcorn...

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https://thumbs.gfycat.com/JubilantIm...se-max-1mb.gif

Y’all know he is not entirely wrong though. There is a group of players that absolutely refuse to cast a gcd heal. If there are no ogcds you better pray you don’t get hit cause you are not getting anything else until the ogcd’s are back. Which is refusing to your primary role for the secondary one. I am all for the dps of healers it adds to the class is much better than standing around all day, but like it not healers cover more than unavoidable damage they have to cover the mistakes too. There is a noticeable subset of healers that don’t understand this. Perfect runs are great, but let’s face it they don’t happen every run.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Y’all know he is not entirely wrong though. There is a group of players that absolutely refuse to cast a gcd heal. If there are no ogcds you better pray you don’t get hit cause you are not getting anything else until the ogcd’s are back. Which is refusing to your primary role for the secondary one. I am all for the dps of healers it adds to the class is much better than standing around all day, but like it not healers cover more than unavoidable damage they have to cover the mistakes too. There is a noticeable subset of healers that don’t understand this. Perfect runs are great, but let’s face it they don’t happen every run.

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There are also Monks who refuse to do any positionals, Red Mage players that use Vercure regularly to play a more traditional Red Mage, and Tanks who don't use defensive cooldowns. So what? There are ALWAYS going who either intentionally or unintentionally play incorrectly to an extreme degree. Nothing SE will ever do will stop this because you cannot micromanage people in an online setting. Sterilizing the game in an attempt to mitigate any frustration caused by these types of players means we're forcing every else to ride with training wheels, and I would argue, doing far more harm than the 6 players that are going to give you a bad roulette run in the next year.

Can we please stop pretending that extreme playstyle players are some menace that's ruining the game?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

There are also Monks who refuse to do any positionals, Red Mage players that use Vercure regularly to play a more traditional Red Mage, and Tanks who don't use defensive cooldowns. So what? There are ALWAYS going who either intentionally or unintentionally play incorrectly to an extreme degree. Nothing SE will ever do will stop this because you cannot micromanage people in an online setting. Sterilizing the game in an attempt to mitigate any frustration caused by these types of players means we're forcing every else to ride with training wheels, and I would argue, doing far more harm than the 6 players that are going to give you a bad roulette run in the next year.

Can we please stop pretending that extreme playstyle players are some menace that's ruining the game?

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Can we stop jumping to extreme conclusions about a post? Was merely pointing out that the OP wasn’t entirely wrong. Furthermore, my example wasn’t extreme. Happens quite a bit, just like healers that stand around and only heal. The difference is SE seems to agree that is acceptable for healers to heal bot. Instead of them using their entire kit.