Another expansion ignoring AoE access

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

How much aoe damage do we really do pre 40 though? I'd imagine the damage is barely noticable.

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I admit, during those levels it's less about damage and more about self gratification.
It is much more satisfying slaping a group of mobs with an aoe than poking everyone one by one. More of a qol feature

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Originally Posted by Xiu_Ye

Half the point is getting players to understand that large groups of mobs (dungeons) are where you should use AoE. There are a lot of players who are max level or near max level and still doing pure single target rotations. This drags things out and is kinda disappointing that people are that unaware. Its not about being speedrunner or zoom zoom fast through things, but getting people to understand the absolute basics of the game. Its like playing a fighter game and not knowing you can kick instead of punch?

I also dont see how this is even an argument against giving people AoE at the level where you would use it in the very next content you do? It seems to logically follow that in the first instance it would be beneficial is where you get it.

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What makes you think that people who don't even read tooltips are going to do even if they get the spell at lvl 1? Get real.

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Originally Posted by _Pigzig

Just remove them for other jobs because I hate the big pull mentality

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So we all need to try not to fall asleep single-targeting single enemies at a time just because you're scared and lazy. No thank you.

Single rotation is more interesting, AoE rotation is boring it's like 2-3 skills. You can do your single rotation more.

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Originally Posted by _Pigzig

Just remove them for other jobs because I hate the big pull mentality

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This literally helps nothing so let's not. Like you said: it's 2-3 buttons and is simple...so why not just do it? Lol

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

How much aoe damage do we really do pre 40 though? I'd imagine the damage is barely noticable.

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Let's say your normal low-level combo deal 40 damage per two button press. Your AoE button deal 9 damage, so it only deal 18 per two button press on a single-target.


However, AoE can hit multi-target, so while you deal 40 damage per two button press on single target, you will deal 54 damage per two button presses if three targets, and more. The more monsters, the more damage AoE combo deals in total. A group of ARR dungeons usually have 3-4 monsters, and it is safe to pull two groups at once.

It definitely does seem a little odd, not even just for the AoE purpose but for just general new player friendliness. On top of that, though, it's also an issue of establishing a habit. Let all classes get some sort of AoE early on, and make sure that the Hall of the Novice teaches it and mentions it. Heck, have them mention it even if you don't have an AoE by that point in the game.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

How much aoe damage do we really do pre 40 though? I'd imagine the damage is barely noticable.

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It's not about the damage for me, it's about how frustrating and unsatisfying it is to be stuck single targeting when I'm surrounded by a pack of mobs. Way more fun to be able to take down everything at once.

People don't read tooltips.... so our solution is.... do nothing at all to help them learn the importance of AoE skills..? I fail to understand what your post is trying to say besides voicing your own personal frustration at other players not pulling their weight. You sound like you should be the loudest advocate for the game doing more to get players involved in how their skills work and when to use them.

While I agree there should be AoE options earlier, it is important to understand your core ST rotations, and to know when to use AoE instead of just blasting it.
I like to think that the first few dungeons are designed to show you "These are the important abilities in your kit".

As in I often see:

- Players using AoE on 1-2 mobs when they should be doing ST (Typically AoE is only ideal from 3+ mobs; depending on the job this may vary).
- Players not understanding that doing parts of their ST rotation is important for their overall DPS output. (eg. doing the part of Samurai's ST puts up 2 different buffs that can then be maintained with AoE).
- Players just not doing ST rotations correctly because AoE is typically easier (especially for melee).

...
All that said, yes: You should have access to your entire range of core abilities by like.. 30. And your entire kit by 50. I've often said post 50 should just be upgraded abilities/more charges of abilities to weave oGCD and not entirely new mechanics.