What reasoning would you be referring to? That could make for a good addition to the document!Quote:
As for the "did we solo? Were we in a group?" I'm content with the reasoning given (in HW, I think?) that the answer to that is "are you? Aren't you? Who knows?" unless made obvious such as Prae or Hades in which you can see the other players as part of story-centric cinematic.
I assume you're talking about when I point out Urianger's changed line? There are no references to other warriors of light existing at the same time as the current single one. There have, of course, been many others in the past, like those who were active during the leadup to the 7th Umbral Calamity, Tenzen, and Saint Ajora. But the player's WoL is the only one currently known, which is undoubtedly why Urianger's line was changed.Quote:
Other than that I don't have too many nitpicks aside from some inferences regarding the echo and adventurers not being likely to have it and lack of other warriors of light (though I know of only one explicitly named off the top of my head) Maybe I misunderstood though.
Clearing up some lore misconceptions
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09-29-2021, 05:30 PMLemonJuice
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09-29-2021, 05:35 PMLemonJuiceI feel that those would be much more difficult to tackle, given that they originate in 1.0's lore.Quote:
I'd love to see something like this catch on just so I never have to see "Y'shtola is immortal" or "Nael van Darnus was a localization error." again.
Also, I think the second would probably require a search for a particular interview where such a thing was discussed (unless you already have it stored somewhere?), and it's entirely possible that I'd just never find it.
I suppose it all comes down to how you treat those first precedents; as the rule, or the exceptions to the rule. Personally, as I probably made clear in the document, I prefer to think of the early instances of help being due to the WoL simply being weaker in the beginning, and then after 2.0, or maybe 2.1, they're no longer really necessary, and any mention of them is just the characters assuming that you'll need help?Quote:
Secondly, the game establishes to my own satisfaction the precedent that you receive help, I don't need them to keep mentioning it every time nor explain how they're there. I can fill in the blanks on my own.
Alphinaud: "Knowing little of this 'saint,' I cannot say if your own strength will suffice, and so I would encourage you to call upon your allies."
WoL: "Uhh yeah, sure thing, Alphinaud. I'll just do that! (lol)"
I like that! A nice way of interpreting what the game presents to you.Quote:
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NPC: This will be a tough one, gather your echo blessed adventurer friends.
Solo WoL: Nah, don't worry about it I'll be fine.
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NPC: Quick WoL! No time to lose, the enemy is straight ahead!
Party WoL: With me my 7 echo blessed friends that I always bring with me!
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09-29-2021, 05:38 PMCleretic
Honestly, I do prefer when the game is written in such a way that suggests that... well, the Warrior of Light isn't some kind of golden unbeatable god-killer, and does need some help sometimes. Because frankly, I find it boring to play a golden unbeatable god-killer, I prefer someone who knows their limits and has to get clever. It's why Joseph is a better JoJo's Bizarre Adventure protagonist than Jotaro.
So, yeah, I'll take the interpretation that the Warrior of Light had seven conveniently nearby fishing buddies for Susano. I feel like the assertion of 'the WoL can just throw down and solo basically every single threat' encourages a lot of the more boring readings and complaints about the game. You know, the 'why did the Warrior of Light not simply murder Fandaniel/Misija/The Entirety Of Ul'Dah's Security And Law Enforcement/any other opponent the game offers up and asks respect of' questions. I think that's generally the thing the English translation especially is trying to solve; laying down that the Warrior of Light is not Superman. -
09-29-2021, 06:27 PMkiagenwaNPC: Quick Sidika! No time to lose, the enemy is straight ahead!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
Sidika: (got bored with MSQ) BRB farming Anima
Some trials leave no room for doubt i.e. Ifrit normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
Regardless of what the story says, you can solo anything unsync if you're strong enough (unless have wipe mechanics) except when the situation should be that you were caught unaware.
Even for Ravana, I can also say Sidika called her friends in preparations and lie in wait until her turn to battle. -
09-29-2021, 09:50 PMMercuryD
I don't have a source for the number of people in encounters but I think it was at a Fanfest/TGS or something with Koji and YoshiP. That's the explanation that makes sense to me in any case.
As for there being only 1 WoL, we know there CAN BE as Ardbert, Lamitt, Nyalbert et al. were all expressly warriors of light, same us we. On the source we DO have someone (implied in English, stated point blank in JP) who we adventure with and is a warrior of light: Ysayle.
Yshtola sees her sacrifice in Azys Lla and says (approximate because I don't have the scripts handy):
EN: This aether... It was a crystal of light! She was one of Her chosen!
JP: Could it be.... She too was a warrior of light -
09-29-2021, 09:56 PMMercuryD(It's early so my translation isn't the best but it works)Quote:
Originally Posted by MercuryD
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10-07-2021, 08:12 AMZero-ELEC
A fun read, real good document.
Yeah, it's established that all who received Her blessing and prove themselves find a crystal of light and are one of Hydaelyn's chosen, called Warriors of Light in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by MercuryD
The Warrior of Light is interesting in that they... receive multiple crystals of light? Which they needed to reignite to receive Her blessing again after their confrontation with Midgarsormr. That always struck me as odd, personally, and not really explained properly. -
10-07-2021, 05:03 PMVyrerusYeah, it was going good until section 3. I disagree with you on a ton of the fights you emphatically claim the WoL soloed, but you still did come to the correct conclusion (mainly thanks to the inarguables where the WoL isn't soloing). I particularly disagreed with your assertions about the Binding Coil fights. I actually wrote up a detailed disagreement, but then thought better of posting it(it was kind of harsh). Better to just say I disagree with most of your solo postures, and leave it at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonJuice
As for the Estinien talk line about wanting to clean his armor... well... I couldn't find anything in my LP about it. I scoured my recordings for over an hour. All I found related to his stained armor was the corruption quote you already listed, though I would definitely bold that he wanted to, "Forge his armor anew." That's some levels of disgust with it(like he doesn't just want to clean it, he wants new armor completely). Also one neat bit of trivia: When he's in the cutscene where he stabs Nidhogg's eye, the camera shifts, and his armor is actually turned red before the blood spray. It's some sleight of hand focus work, but it was more than just the lighting there that made it look red hehe.
The only places I have doubts on not knowing if the possible talk dialogue is there, is if Estinien has a location where he can be talked to after the events of the Vault. There is also the possibility that his talk dialogue changed right after turning in, "Unrest in Ishgard," but before taking up the next quest, "He Who Would Not Be Denied." If it's not in those two places though, then it's not anywhere. I looked through from the time his armor looks red until the very end of Nidhogg where he's recovering in bed. -
10-08-2021, 08:26 PMAnonymoose
I'm in the camp that there's a difference between a Warrior of Light and the Warrior of Light.
It's a running theme of this game - Hydaelyn's Chosen were once called the Zodiac Braves, but then any hero became known as a Zodiac Brave. There have been more sets of Braves than there have been Calamities. We saw the same on the First - the first Warrior of Light there was Hydaelyn's chosen, but the word became distorted over time and applied to any hero.
Eorzeans don't know the difference between Echo users that stood with Louisoix at Carteneau and true crystal bearers. Eorzeans don't know the difference between Hydaelyn's chosen (one crystal) and Hydaelyn's champion (six crystals, the ability to interfere with the aetherial realm). Heroes are heroes. Heroes are Warriors of Light. But that doesn't mean we need to take on their ignorance. We know the difference. (...Kinda.) -
10-09-2021, 04:15 AMLemonJuiceI appreciate your forbearance on the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
I also appreciate that you took the time to look through the relevant quests for Estinien's elusive talk dialogue. Seems it was just a case of confabulation on my part!
As am I, which is why I drew attention to Urianger's odd, altered line. Hopefully EW sheds a little more light on the distinction between those blessed with a single crystal, and those blessed with six. It'd be nice to know if, for example, Tenzen, or Ramza, had six.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose