Why do people hate BRD?

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Yes I agree it was well told but ontop of why people hate Bard I wanted to know how one would improve it too going forward.

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I found these threads helpful for that, and for people highlighting their overall issues with BRD.
I hope these threads have good info for you~

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-and-Requests?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...or-BRD-in-6.0?

Maybe I'm just a bad bard or something but more than any other class I've played so far it feels brutally reliant on a cruel RNG. I can play red mage or dancer and be tapping those buttons all day and seeing the little random procs come up with pretty frequent regularity (or at least what feels like frequent regularity) but with bard, more than either of those classes, I notice I can go entire fights without a single straight shot proccing outside of when I manually guarantee it to. Or I can use my songs and my skills just won't reset for the entire duration. Or I won't gain any charges. It makes bard feel weirdly limp, you go in expecting that crisp snap of spaghetti but instead it's just all wet and sticky. I like getting, and using, my abilities and skills. It feels sad when none of them proc.

I just wish its dots had more to do with music rather than...wind and poison. The thematic confusion is what turns me off from the class more than anything else, but now that in EW they seem to be getting a new type of song/music buff I'll probably revisit the class.

Someone at the executive level needs to decide what its purpose is. That would go a long way to relieving the tiring rebrand, every time they decide they need something cannibalized for a new job release.

Is it an Archer, a bowmage, an actual...heaven forbid..'Bard'. The list goes on. The 'I only want one support' motif someone suggested they have, might well be the reason its just treading water on the identity river; waiting to be flushed away into the abyss next wave along.

I am annoyed enough about MNK over the years. I can't imagine the hilarity of being a BRD and hoping they make their minds up. What other people have said regarding its poor musical affinity, uninteresting high range skills and beyond - isn't going anywhere until that happens. And its a shame. The questline makes it plenty clear what Bard was supposed to be and the support hybrids done well over the years (Aion Chanter off the top of my head as one example) are extremely fun. If they can't solve the problem, perhaps they should hire someone with an original thought of their own.

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Originally Posted by Mindiori

Someone at the executive level needs to decide what its purpose is. That would go a long way to relieving the tiring rebrand, every time they decide they need something cannibalized for a new job release.

Is it an Archer, a bowmage, an actual...heaven forbid..'Bard'. The list goes on. The 'I only want one support' motif someone suggested they have, might well be the reason its just treading water on the identity river; waiting to be flushed away into the abyss next wave along.

I am annoyed enough about MNK over the years. I can't imagine the hilarity of being a BRD and hoping they make their minds up. What other people have said regarding its poor musical affinity, uninteresting high range skills and beyond - isn't going anywhere until that happens. And its a shame. The questline makes it plenty clear what Bard was supposed to be and the support hybrids done well over the years (Aion Chanter off the top of my head as one example) are extremely fun. If they can't solve the problem, perhaps they should hire someone with an original thought of their own.

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Ugh, I find this to be heavily exaggerated, more so than the forums can be at times. I don’t wanna be unproductive and simp for a job but “uninteresting high ranged skill” can apply to basically all the ranged jobs, DNC 1-2 and boring appeal without flourish, MCH heat spam and lateral skills, BRD’s Bleeding blood arrows and slow as hell proc rates on low end areas ect ect

does anyone actually pick up the game and think, "hmm I could be a dragoon, knight etc. Nah that sounds boring let me be a BARD"
I first thought the class would use harps lol.

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Originally Posted by _Pigzig

does anyone actually pick up the game and think, "hmm I could be a dragoon, knight etc. Nah that sounds boring let me be a BARD"
I first thought the class would use harps lol.

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Hmm interesting point, was BRD poorly received in ARR or Ff11 for not being a typical sword and shield knight? I’m aware it overshadowed MCH in SB and they were equals in HW. But the point misses the mark due to DNC popularity and assume it’ll remain a popular job in EW

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Originally Posted by _Pigzig

does anyone actually pick up the game and think, "hmm I could be a dragoon, knight etc. Nah that sounds boring let me be a BARD"
I first thought the class would use harps lol.

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Yes.
It may not be a traditional poster job, or a traditionally popular option, but it def has its audience (ba-dum tish).

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Hmm interesting point, was BRD poorly received in ARR or Ff11 for not being a typical sword and shield knight? I’m aware it overshadowed MCH in SB and they were equals in HW. But the point misses the mark due to DNC popularity and assume it’ll remain a popular job in EW

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Can't speak for FF11, but for ARR? No not in any way, if anything Bard has been legitimately one of the most, if not THE MOST, popular jobs in the game, even during it's supposed 'low points' of Heavensward when the BowMage mechanic was extremely unpopular with a majority of it's player base (and even now you will still see people who say they missed it). The Stormblood iteration was viewed as maybe one of the most well put together jobs in the games entire history. Bards current lack of popularity is PURELY a Shadowbringers Bard issue.

As for why that occurred it's a multitude of reasons all combining together to lead to the current level of dissatisfaction with the job.

1) Dancer came in and took what was Bard's primary niche in being the support DPS hybrid, so that grabbed people right off the bat. People who weren't married to Bards aesthetic and just wanted to be more then a pure DPS dishing player liked that, and it also made Bard's who loved that identity pretty salty with getting their support identity ripped away.

2) Dancer was also a LONG requested job by the player base, so unlike MCH in Heavensward, there was a much larger hype factor to the new kid on the block, and that naturally will always pull people away from the role.

3) Ranged physical as a role taking such a big step back in their damage output from Stormblood to Shadowbringers. Even the best Bard players would agree that ranged physicals were overturned in Stormblood, but no one is gonna like to hear that "Hey, your job is too strong, so were gonna knee cap and make it the weakest job in the game." You can use every balance argument you want, but none of that is gonna make it any easier for the player of the job getting nerfed to swallow.

4) The Machinist rework brought in a LOT of new MCH players. While it may not be what the current MCH players wanted, the fact remains that the rework provided a lot of new life to the job and people gravitated to the new flashy rotation. It grabbed new blood and got players to gravitate to the job. So not only did BRD get a new competitor in Dancer, but it's old competitor got new life as well.

5) The new 1% party buff system in concert with the low damage across the role, and the popularity of said new jobs, made sure Bard wasn't showing up at all in most raid teams save for the Bard die hards. Outside of some high end prog, having two ranged DPS is viewed as suboptimal play (a dumb thought, as good players can make anything work), and Bard was so undertuned and unpopular to start the expansion off, that it basically insured that even if you were bringing in a second ranged, it sure wasn't going to be BRD.

6) All of the above in concert with the biggest thing that most Bard players who have been playing the job for a long time think: Shadowbringers Bard is a step back in every single way from Stormblood Bard. Less DPS. Less support. Less rotational complexity. Less excitement. Less impactful feeling. Nothing about the changes made to Bard in the new expansion excited Bard players, and THAT is the biggest failing of the job. When you played a job that legit felt damn near perfect, and then its new version feels like a total step down in all ways, your opinions about it are not gonna be positive.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Hmm interesting point, was BRD poorly received in ARR or Ff11 for not being a typical sword and shield knight? I’m aware it overshadowed MCH in SB and they were equals in HW. But the point misses the mark due to DNC popularity and assume it’ll remain a popular job in EW

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BRD in FFXI was an actual Bard. Not a combatant in any way; they just played songs for party buffs. Because there was plenty of downtime in between those (buffs lasted 2 minutes if I remember correctly), they generally also roamed around and pulled mobs for the party. Exp parties in FFXI stayed in one spot while a puller went around to find a new one while the party was killing one and aggro'd it to bring back to the party camp site. It also helped that BRD could put one to sleep if the party wasn't quite done with the previous one yet.

Despite not directly engaging in combat, BRDs increased the group's ability to kill a mob, recover HP/MP, and be ready for the next mob faster than any other job in the game, period. Every single party wanted a BRD. If you were on BRD and put your looking for party flag up, you would be hit up within seconds guaranteed. They were amazing, people loved having them, and a lot of people loved playing them.

However, it was a different time, and apparently no more MMOs want to have dedicated buffers or dedicated debuffers/disablers that don't actually focus on beating stuff up anymore. Those abilities are now always spread out among the DPS, healers, and tanks to make them more interesting.