A weary player sees hope in the new update

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Originally Posted by Searious

Go outside. Problem solved.
Leveling is fast but if you got 40 in three days either you don't do anything else besides play or you got powerleveled.

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If we're at a point where we're telling people to play the game less, there's something wrong.

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Originally Posted by Fingerbox

Long grinds aren't challenging. Pouring your time into something, if anything at all, is just a challenge to your willpower.
For something to be truly challenging it must challenge your skills.

When something is challenging there are only a few people who can do it, not only a few people who are willing to do it.

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Fair enough. But you also have to admit that we're talking about a genre where a "Quest" is considered to be "kill 10 rats and bring me their tails", has every point of the task clearly displayed (arrows, hot-spots on the maps, etc), and takes only 10 minutes to complete.

This has very much become a "bite-sized" generation of gamers. They expect everything, including the greatest or rarest of rewards, to be doable in an hour or less and with minimal effort or committment. That's fine for casual games or some single-player/offline offerings. But in a genre like MMORPGs, where it's supposed to be a long-term, on-going adventure, it's kinda missing the point. You can see that in the requests for 100% drop rates on items that are supposed to be among the most rare or powerful in the game.

While your point certainly speaks to one extreme, many gamers these days fall clearly at the opposite end. There's very little middle-ground being represented.

Final Fantasy for me has always been about the story, the world, the game play, and the mythos. Difficulty never even crossed my mind. Sure there's an occasion PITA such as the "weapons".

I've always been tied to the concept "Context without fun is boredom, challenge without fun is frustration".

Now if only FFXIV would make some changes to the big battles that take server latency into account, I'd enjoy the game even more so.

I think what the developers need to do, is figure out a way to make the game difficult and require effort, but not so much hours upon hours upon hours of dedication.

I don't believe that x amount of time = x quality of reward.. that being said the game is pretty fast .. but I don't think there is enough content to keep people satisfied while levelling.

I mean today I logged on for 20 -40 minutes doing 3 leves to level me up.

Maybe in 2.0 things won't feel so grindy, or leves will be a grindy option whereas quests might be a bit more interesting.

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Originally Posted by Ryans

The thought that always goes through my head when someone says "Players should not be penalized for lack of available play time" is that it you are then punishing the players that do have enough time. The majority, if not all, of the popular MMOs on the market at current are fairly easy for any seasoned gamer.

I don't consider myself an elitest by any meaning of the word. In FFXI, I didn't get relic weapons, I didn't get a Novio's Earring or Kraken Club, and I didn't have all the jobs at 75. I didn't complete these tasks, not because I didn't have the time, but because I wasn't willing to put the time in. I did, however, complete all the dynamis zones, kill AV, and have a few jobs at 75. My point is that I could experience all of what the game had to offer by playing a few days a week and at the same time, it didn't take away from the challenge it offered others who wanted to put the time in.

Something that always uplifted my spirits was seeing a piece of gear that took real effort to obtain on a random player in town. Knowing that I most likely wouldn't get that item didn't make me want to play less, or more for that matter, it just made me smile knowing that there was always something better. That isn't the case in any of the recent MMOs I've played.

In summary, if you can only play for a few days a week, you shouldn't be the best geared but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to experience a fight.

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Very well said. You echo my point-of-view pretty much spot on.

I always enjoyed knowing that there were super rare items out there that few people, if any, had acquired yet. I loved that there were enemies that people had trouble finding a winning strategy for. I loved the idea that there were all these areas and all these encounters I had yet to experience myself. And it didn't bother me in the least if I never did experience them, because to me, it was all part of the "world" I was playing in. I would see people with the Black Belt in XI (when it was still very rare to see one) and would drool becuase I didn't have it yet. It never made me feel jealous or what not. I loved knowing that obtaining it was a goal I could very well work toward and achieve, just like others did.

I also knew that I had just as much opportunity to achieve something or experience something if I did decide to do so. I simply wasn't so self-entitled as to believe that for me to do so should require any less time, effort or committment than those who came before.

This seems to be a major issue these days. People who start a game a year or more after others did feeling they should be given a faster or easier ride because it's somehow "unfair" that people who started before them are farther along. That is such a blatantly "me-first", self-serving attitude it that it boggles my mind to know people actually think that way.

I usually play FF because of the story and (I admit) the battle system. XIII-2 was utterly disappointing in both regards.
In XIV, I think it's about right (leveling may be a biiit too fast, though). In XI everything felt like work. Especially the battles that forced you to find certain items you lost upon entry. Made way for so much elitism 'cause nobody was willing to go content without a strategy guide. Again, this is not fun. Challenge I embrace (and XIV finally lives up to that in a way), but XI took it to the extreme.

I agree there needs to be some kind of balance between speed and tedium.

To the OP, Yoshida has said numerous times the speed at we current level is not going to be the same in 2.0, its been inflated so that new players can get to end game faster and partake in end game content which is where the majority of the content resides right now.

I guess we will see when they show the results from the players poll, on where peoples opinions lay based on levelling speed.

I have to admit to not reading the majority of your post though OP, 1 its way too long lol and 2 it's reeks of FF11, this is not FF11, yes its the successor but I don't really see what that has to do with it.

SE are after casual players so it only makes sense to make a game that appeals to them.

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In FFXI, Square Enix fully embraced this ideal. But, for a comparison, let's sidetrack a moment to a game I tried before I played FFXI: WoW. I used the trial period to see what the game was about, and if it interested me. And it, I'll admit, interested me. For all of three days. The next day, I logged on, looked at my level 40 character, and paused.

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Something is wrong with this part of the post though, you can't get a lvl 40 class using a trial account, the maximum is 20.

So did you really play WoW at all ?

FWIW wow is like this game it doesn't really get good until end game.

When I buy a Final Fantasy title, it's primarily for the STORYLINE, the world and the lore.

I do agree that in FFXI, the higher difficulty made accomplishments all that much sweeter. And I do agree that in FFXIV, leveling your DoM/W is a little too fast. But the Primal fights (in my limited experience, a couple runs of each, no clears) I have found to be truly challenging and enjoyable.

If we want to try and effect change in the game, let's talk about hard player count requirements on instances (ugh), lack of long-lasting reward systems on Events (to encourage running it far into the future, and leaving a reason to help new players through it), and, you know...other stuff like that.

Shrug, just imho. :)

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SE are after casual players so it only makes sense to make a game that appeals to them.

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So is every other MMO on the market.
You know who's really getting ignored? You know who's an untapped source of interest? Core players.
Let's get things to aspire for. Things that not everyone can get so easily.

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Originally Posted by indira

alot of people fail to remember is this game is gonna be gone in a few months and were getting almost a whole new one in a few months who knows what ahead.

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Yes, the holy grail of 2.0

Now, let's look back...

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people fail to remember the game is still in alpha

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people fail to remember the game is still in closed beta

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people fail to remember the game is still in open beta

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Notice a pattern?

Our current version will be scrapped, yes. They have to work around the engine to implement things, yes.

You still should be voicing your opinion now instead of telling people to "wait till 2.0". If we don't voice our opinion, they will have to assume they are doing the right thing and continue doing it in 2.0 and beyond. They started listening to our feedback, don't let this go to waste.

Once 2.0 arrives, it is going to be too late to change any major things.