Idea to make DF less annoying for DPS.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

The best way of making dps queues better is to make people want to play healers and tanks and spread the numbers a bit.

Sadly SE hasn't grasped that. Healers are at their worst, and several tanks have seen better days. So everyone's playing dps right now.

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So heres the real problem. Healers can't heal stupid, and tanks get abused all the time. These are the 2 most thankless roles in any mmo always as they are the ones influenced by other players behaviors the most. You will always have less of them then the pew pew lazer classes.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

The best way of making dps queues better is to make people want to play healers and tanks and spread the numbers a bit.

Sadly SE hasn't grasped that. Healers are at their worst, and several tanks have seen better days. So everyone's playing dps right now.

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It doesn't help that tanks and healers have performance requirements to meet from their very first dungeon while dps rarely have any responsibilities until they reach Extreme content. Plenty of players are willing to trade an increased queue time for a responsibility-free carry through their roulettes. Until dps are held to a standard by the game's mechanics (soft/hard enrages, burn phases, post-dungeon leaderboards, etc) these players have no reason to play anything else.

As long as tanks and healers are seen as a burden to play, dps will remain overpopulated.

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

So heres the real problem. Healers can't heal stupid, and tanks get abused all the time. These are the 2 most thankless roles in any mmo always as they are the ones influenced by other players behaviors the most. You will always have less of them then the pew pew lazer classes.

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I remember being a healer in a Bismark normal (trial roulette) back at the start of SB. No one would avoid any of the mechanics, DPS kept getting hit by the aoes and the tornado, tanks wouldn't move things away from aoes. Everyone literally standing in all the bad without even trying to move. We kept wiping because they couldn't stay alive to beat the enrage and this was with my co-healer and I doing everything we could to keep them up (that's all we could do, we didn't have time to dps ourselves). One of the tanks tried to blame it on us. My co-healer immediately said "We're healers, not Jesus. So we can't heal stupid." Amazingly the next run all the tanks and dps started doing mechanics. I was sad I could only give my co-healer one comm.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Sadly SE hasn't grasped that. Healers are at their worst, and several tanks have seen better days. So everyone's playing dps right now.

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Everyone plays the DPS role because they don’t want the responsibility of protecting and keeping the party alive. DPS is a job you can breeze through dungeons and not put that much thought into it, especially at earlier levels. People fear failing the group as a tank/healer.

I’ve levelled both White Mage and Astrologian to 80, I think both of them are a lot of fun and see nothing wrong with the jobs at all. Scholar is next on my list because I enjoy healing and find it satisfying.

Games that have the trinity just have more people who play dps in general. Anecdotally when I started playing this way back when - I went dps, but I think it's because this is the first game where I decided to NOT be a tank or healer main. I just didn't want to be the tank or healer anymore. I have started playing tank and healer much more this expac though for the variety.

But I do think a lot play dps because they don't want the responsibility of tanking or healing. Or, just don't have the confidence and are worried they'll get people killed? Though you can do that as a dps too if you do mechanics wrong or stack aoes on others.

WoW has the 3 DPS set up and wait times as a DD are honestly worse than in FFXIV. I've waited up to an hour for groups over there (on a high pop server during peak hours) whereas the absolute longest I've waited here is 25 mins.

And I honestly enjoy healing in duties, more than dps. Feels good when you save what would otherwise be a wipe with timely rezzes and healing through people ignoring mechanics.

I do agree that the dps rotation isn't very inspired and it's the reason I have a dps class for MSQ and whatnot. I'm unsure how to fix that without bloating our hotbars (they're already pretty busy as it is). Maybe if they could combine some of our healing functionality into less buttons, but I wouldn't want an over-simplified healing kit either.

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Originally Posted by Lexis

WoW has the 3 DPS set up and wait times as a DD are honestly worse than in FFXIV. I've waited up to an hour for groups over there (on a high pop server during peak hours) whereas the absolute longest I've waited here is 25 mins.

And I honestly enjoy healing in duties, more than dps. Feels good when you save what would otherwise be a wipe with timely rezzes and healing through people ignoring mechanics.

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This was my experience back in WoW as well; the wait times could be crazy, waiting anywhere from 20 to 30 to even 40+ minutes for a group, and that was with the automated finder. Using the PF there could take even longer.

When I play as DPS, my wait times here in FFXIV have never been that bad, lol. Similarly, the longest I've ever waited has been 20-25min and even then I barely noticed because there's so much other actually fun stuff to do.

Also, 100% agree how awesome tanking and healing can be, as a Tank pushing through a boss when most of the group wipes or as a healer bringing a party back from the brink of destruction for the ultimate win!

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

Everyone plays the DPS role because they don’t want the responsibility of protecting and keeping the party alive. DPS is a job you can breeze through dungeons and not put that much thought into it, especially at earlier levels. People fear failing the group as a tank/healer.

I’ve levelled both White Mage and Astrologian to 80, I think both of them are a lot of fun and see nothing wrong with the jobs at all. Scholar is next on my list because I enjoy healing and find it satisfying.

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I've done the same, playing dungeons first as a DPS so I can get a feel for it, but then usually do a lot more tanking or healing after (depending on need, etc.)

And another interesting note, I've seen how a lot of other folks don't seem to care much for the current iterations of Tanks and Healers, and while my experience is admittedly limited, I'm still enjoying myself quite a bit with every Job I play. I've got my core "holy trinity" going already and decently geared (GNB, AST, BLM), but I've already dabbled in other Jobs and am enjoying them.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

Ever consider making some friends? Maybe join an active FC? Or make use of party finder? These things can lead to instant que times for any DPS player.

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Friends and FCs would only get in the way of my badass lone wolf lifestyle.

Anyways, the lack of personal attacks and/or irrationally dramatic responses here disgusts me. This forum seems to be losing it's entertainment value. It may be time for me to move on.

https://data.whicdn.com/images/117008412/original.gif

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

So heres the real problem. Healers can't heal stupid, and tanks get abused all the time. These are the 2 most thankless roles in any mmo always as they are the ones influenced by other players behaviors the most. You will always have less of them then the pew pew lazer classes.

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While I don't disagree with either you or Ritsuko, a better gameplay experience for tanks and healers helps mitigate this to an extent. Yes, both roles can be incredibly thankless at times but people will often put up with it if the majority of their experience is fun. Healers lack in this regard. You either stand around doing absolutely nothing or you learn how to optimize which results in being a gimped DPS 75% of the time. And this is on top of the aforementioned thanklessness. Tanks have it a little better but only in giant pulls. Bosses certainly don't phase them whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

It doesn't help that tanks and healers have performance requirements to meet from their very first dungeon while dps rarely have any responsibilities until they reach Extreme content. Plenty of players are willing to trade an increased queue time for a responsibility-free carry through their roulettes. Until dps are held to a standard by the game's mechanics (soft/hard enrages, burn phases, post-dungeon leaderboards, etc) these players have no reason to play anything else.

As long as tanks and healers are seen as a burden to play, dps will remain overpopulated.

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And this is another issue. DPS really need some degree of responsibility in content. Deathwing from Dun Scaith should be standard for all bosses. He has a fairly generous enrage but enough of one to make a point. Alas, this won't happen as the devs want casual content to be easily clearable with minimal effort. All while forgetting that lack of responsibility for the DPS contributes to why players won't bother playing tanks or healers.