Lack of lore on the Raen Au Ra

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Originally Posted by Gerel

If I recall, the Raen were "forced out" of the Steppe by the Xaela for wanting something other than a nomadic and war-centric life, which is what led to a large bulk of the Raen population leaving to form Sui-no-Sato and the rest spreading throughout the Far East to become the eventual warriors of the various warlords throughout the Age of Blood. Their assimilation and adoption of other cultures filled the void left from that exodus--which seems to be a strong component of Raen temperament and "culture." Unlike the Xaela, who thrive on sticking to the principles of the Steppe and nothing but, the Raen are far more malleable and capable of adjusting to differing people if it means a place in the world.

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From what I understand, the ancestors of the people of Sui-no-Sato were very much a minority within the larger Raen population. According to the lore book, the Raen diaspora merged with the dominant hyur culture of Yanxia by hiring themselves out as samurai and settling into positions of authority and only a few of them didn't want the life of conflict and set out to live under the ocean. The ancestors of those people didn't go straight from the steppe to the sea.

Considering how Raen are even today known for their martial prowess, I'd say that the original exodus was as a result of war rather than an ideological difference.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

From what I understand, the ancestors of the people of Sui-no-Sato were very much a minority within the larger Raen population. According to the lore book, the Raen diaspora merged with the dominant hyur culture of Yanxia by hiring themselves out as samurai and settling into positions of authority and only a few of them didn't want the life of conflict and set out to live under the ocean. The ancestors of those people didn't go straight from the steppe to the sea.

Considering how Raen are even today known for their martial prowess, I'd say that the original exodus was as a result of war rather than an ideological difference.

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It's why I put quotation marks around "forced out," admittedly! The go-to answer for the Xaela for any sort of disapproval is largely: "okay, we hear you, but now we're going to hit you." The Raen likely wanted something different for life on the Steppe, which is what led to the ultimate schism that resulted in the forced departure by the Xaela--who were pretty adamant about keeping things "as they'd always been."

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Originally Posted by yuurei94

I'm very familiar with Shinto and have a personal copy of the Kojiki myself, so there isn't a need to explain it. The kami in Othard are very vague, with only some primals having equivalents to the Amatsukami and other divinities from Japanese mythology.

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So how was I supposed to know that from you asking "what religion, other than a general belief in kami" the Raen might follow – implying that kami worship doesn't qualify as a religion in itself and there should be something else in addition to it?

And no, I don't think it needs describing in great detail in the game itself, especially if what we know of it has a clear real-world analogue. It's a Japanese religion in a Japanese setting, so assume they are alike unless details are clearly incompatible.

It's something that might get a page in the lorebook (I haven't read volume 2 yet; not sure if it does) but it doesn't necessarily need time dedicated to it in the game unless it's a plot point. They haven't gone into the religions of the Twelve in much more detail than we've heard of the kami, either.

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Originally Posted by Gerel

If I recall, the Raen were "forced out" of the Steppe by the Xaela for wanting something other than a nomadic and war-centric life...

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That bugs me as a history, because how does that tie in with them being visually different to the Xaela? It's not like every individual who departed is going to suddenly develop different-coloured scales to their ancestors "just because".

The thing that bugs me most is that aside from acknowledging that the Raen once believed themselves descendants of Azim, the Xaela on the steppe make absolutely no reference to the clan whatsoever.

It could just be that none of them even remember the when/why of the divide between the two clans (Particularly given that much of Xaela history has been lost to the ages due to them having no written language), but it still feels awkward.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That bugs me as a history, because how does that tie in with them being visually different to the Xaela? It's not like every individual who departed is going to suddenly develop different-coloured scales to their ancestors "just because".

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They were still Raen, if I recall. There WAS a time where Raen and Xaela did coexist in unison after the mythological war between Azim and Nhaama (which may just be the Xaela's take on the battle between Hydaelyn and Zodiark or a battle between Azem and some other foil), but the Raen did seem to embody the more orderly aspects of the race from the get-go. They didn't like the aimless wandering, the constant need to fight for survival, and instead seemed more interested in settling down and developing a functioning civilization. That's where the ideological schism and (most likely) war hit.

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The thing that bugs me most is that aside from acknowledging that the Raen once believed themselves descendants of Azim, the Xaela on the steppe make absolutely no reference to the clan whatsoever.

It could just be that none of them even remember the when/why of the divide between the two clans (Particularly given that much of Xaela history has been lost to the ages due to them having no written language), but it still feels awkward.

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I'd say that the majority of Xaela just decided to lump them in together with everybody else as "too weak to survive the Steppe, don't care about you." They didn't seem overly concerned or interested in anybody from the outside world, barring those who frequented Reunion (and the Kha) until an outsider became Khagan. Though I do admit it's a pretty strange thing to not even bring up as a jab. I'd love if we could learn more about what the Raen were like pre-migration.

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Originally Posted by Gerel

They were still Raen, if I recall. There WAS a time where Raen and Xaela did coexist in unison after the mythological war between Azim and Nhaama (which may just be the Xaela's take on the battle between Hydaelyn and Zodiark or a battle between Azem and some other foil), but the Raen did seem to embody the more orderly aspects of the race from the get-go. They didn't like the aimless wandering, the constant need to fight for survival, and instead seemed more interested in settling down and developing a functioning civilization. That's where the ideological schism and (most likely) war hit.

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I assume (!) Azim is Bahamut, while Nhaama is Tiamat. The battle between Hydaelyn and Zodiark happend thousands of years before.
You must known, that the original Bahamut was more calm and wise. Not like the hatefull primal during the allagan war.

Its pretty hard to tell, where Au Ra have their roots. In auri lore, it is stated, that two gods (Azim, the Dawn Father and Nhaama, the Dusk Mother) created the world and quarreled over which should rule the new world, and created mortals to serve as their soldiers to wage a war by proxy. But they let their differences aside and learned to love one another. Both gods then left their creations and returned to the heavens.

It is known, that first brood dragons (Bahamut and Tiamat) alongside with their children (dragons) have their origins in Meracydia, together with other species and the Warring Triad (Sephiroth, Zurvan and Sophia). Hyur discovered Meracydia and lived in peace with the other races. Then the Allagans came and started to conquer Meracydia which ended in the death of Bahamut (and later his summon and capture as a primal) and the capture of the meracydian dragons and the Warring Triad within Azyz Lla. Not to mention with the help of the Voidsent. Meracydia is now a wasteland.

THEORY STARTS HERE:
I believe that Tiamat and Bahamut must left Meracydia somewhere after Hyur discovery and before the allagan invasion and created the Au Ra in the Azim Steppe by mixing dragon- and hyur-genes. Maybe they want to find out, if coexistence with Hyur will work or if the hyur nature affect the personality of future descendants (think about the dragon-elezen-relationship in Heavensward with Shiva and Hraesvelgr). So they gave both races (Raen from Bahamut, Xaela from Tiamat) the task to fight eachother in a war. Both Raen and Xaela followed the order of their "gods" first. But after some time, they put their differences aside. Tiamat and Bahamut watched that process and discovered, that both races can survive alone and live in peace. So they left their creations and returned to meracydia and agree with a coexistence with Hyur.

Raen and Xaela lived in peace for the most part. But the initial battle against eachother may created the tradition to fight over the throne in the Azim Steppe (Naadam, a yearly ritual to determine the ruling tribe and Khagan of the Steppe). Xaela and Raen formed dozens of clans during this time. Some were tribe-exclusive (Raen- or Xaela-exclusive) other clans have members of mixed tribes (Xaela and Raen - Malagud may be the last one of them).

At some point, most Raen clans decided to leave the Azim steppe to outrun the yearly "conflict" with other clans. Every clan took another route to other countries. As they still are the soldiers with their innate martial prowess, some Raen found empolyment as soldiers as swordsmen in the Far East. But many others wanted a life of tranquility and solitude settling in the valleys of Othards mountains or desired to leave any conflict behind and build a home in Sui No Sato with the help of the Kojin. Most Raen adapted the cultures of Doma and Hingashi and left their traditions and clans behind.

But not all Raen clans were that lucky. In the early years of the movement from their homeland, they were received with hatred and hostility. Especially those who traveled through garlean and ishgardian territory. The Garlean occupied Doma, so many Au Ra (Raen and Xaela) found their way to Ishgard as refugees. Unfortuneately, Au Ra were mistaken as dragons and facing a permanent conflict with the ishgardian inquisition during the dragonsong war. Needless to say, that very few Au Ra survived that (or worse). Consequently, they hide their appearance when getting in contact with new people.

Conversely, the Xaela still live mostly in the Azim Steppe and its surrounding regions, maintaining their nomadic way of life, language and traditions including the "Naadam" and "Bardams Mettle". Most Xaela will face strangers as potential enemies. As such, they are typically regarded with suspicion and hostility.


Speculations:
- It was Tiamats (Nhaamas) idea to let both races fight each other ("Naadam" and "Nhaama").
- Xaela are physically stronger and tenacious due to their nomadic lifestyle (and their race stats)
- Raen are more adaptive and intellectual due to their integration with other cultures (and their race stats)
- Raen may be more present in Sharlayan, because of their search for life of tranquility and solitude.

THEORY ENDS HERE

I feel like Endwalker is going to have to touch on exactly how all of the races came about as the events immediately after the Sundering are a big unknown but very important and it's been suggested multiple times that they came about as a side effect of it.

The whole dragon/Au Ra relationship seems fairly debunked simply for the fact that the Au Ra already had a well-established presence on the steppe during the height of the Allagan Empire.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

Azim is Bahamut, while Nhaama is Tiamat.

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That is entirely your speculation, not a fact. Most of the rest of what you wrote sounds unfamiliar as well.

If you're making up your own lore, make that clear – especially in a discussion about how much lore exists.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That is entirely your speculation, not a fact. Most of the rest of what you wrote sounds unfamiliar as well.

If you're making up your own lore, make that clear – especially in a discussion about how much lore exists.

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Then you missed the point entirely or didnt actually read what I wrote. I never said that all I wrote is canon. Only the 2nd and 3rd part are known from ingame material or books. Try again.

There is not much lore about Au Ra, topic closed.

But if you know better you re free to enlighten us. Tell us, who are Azim and Nhaama?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/308500