Cutscene badassery vs actual gameplay is not an accurate comparison of strength. Nor are power up stories, for that matter. The WoL had to lose to Zenos the first time otherwise there'd be no buildup to the rematch. Even if the WoL was stronger they still would have lost for "reasons" simply because the script called for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICountFrom0
We have no real way of knowing who would win in an actual, fair fight because the answer is always "whoever the writers pick."
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06-12-2021, 03:33 AMBrightamethyst
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06-12-2021, 03:39 AMICountFrom0
Nither of those were cutscene badassery.
Both are things that happened mid fight. -
06-12-2021, 03:39 AMHiraishinNoJutsuCorrect me if I'm wrong but the WoL canonically has soloed weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICountFrom0
-Cinder Drift was you being tasked with crossing the Ghimlyt Dark and halting Ruby Weapon before it was going to wreak havoc on Eorzea
-The Cloud Deck was Gaius and Cid formulating a plan to Capture Diamond Weapon rather than destroy it.
In both instances WoL is in story fighting these solo but we have 8 people with us because of gameplay reasons. A case of Ludo narrative dissonance. The feat of destroying the trial weapons i'm willing to consider more impressive because they aren't just proto types but considered successors to Ultima Weapon.
The main argument I have against considering Estinien superior to Zenos/WoL is this:
Estinien when confronting Zenos says
"I've seen him in action. His body atleast. You will not best him alone"
-Zenos challenges both Estinien and Gaius and is soundly on top. He Blocks a dive with his new barrier and tanks a Dragonsong Dive head-on with out a scratch.
-Zenos cites that the pleasures of one's own flesh is amazing and Estinien comments "Whatever he is, Forename was barely a match for him. if we stay much longer-"
-The imperials make it to the throne room and see Varis dead and this is where the fight cuts short
Zenos lives for the hunt, lives for the joy of doing battle with strong opponents but describes the duo of "The Azure Dragoon" and "The Black Wolf" as middling. It doesn't come close to the majesty that was the battle atop the Royal Menagerie. At this point in the story Zenos has not encountered the WoL since StormBlood but even this form of Estinien pales in comparison to us during the Shinryu fight.
Therefore if the WoL at end of 4.0 is still the hunt Zenos measures everything else up to and Estinein+Gaius are average at best and since the writers are clearly building up the rivalry between us and Zenos we can make the argument
WoL = Zenos and both are greater than Estinien -
06-12-2021, 05:13 AMVyrerus
The main difference between Estinien and the WoL is that Estinien's use of his full power tires him out. We don't know how long he can sustain the effort. The WoL on the other hand has no such clearly defined upper limit as far as the narrative goes.
Both are subjected to cutscene incompetence, though. -
06-12-2021, 06:42 AMBlitzAceRushYeah, we see this fatigue during the 5.55 trial, while the feat he performs during it is pretty impressive, he then immediately takes a hit and is down for the count, while the WoL often is asked to do things back to back, like how we gave away large amounts of aether to Aliese and then had to be the last (wo)man standing during the tempering trial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
It's also worth noting that when our Allies like Estinien go all out, it's often a one off show of might, they do it once and rarely are they asked to do it again right after, whereas our WoL on the regular goes from leading front line charges, to taking down weapons, to liberating castrums and soloing primals and the only rest we get in-between is "well you've got time to walk rather than run to your next objective, yay...!"
Edit: Also curse cutscene incompetence, I know other characters suffer from it, but the WoL... I swear the lacus litore end cutscene... I have been mad about a lot of things... but I don't think I will never not be mad about that one... never have I screamed "SHOOT HER!" more times internally than that moment and I was a DRK, I didn't even have a gun, but I can still throw darkness, hell I would have accepted throwing my damn sword at that point... ahem... I know we can't do much because we can be any job and taking future jobs into account that's a lot of animations. But with all the Azem stuff just give me some generic WoL/Azem powers in cutscenes and free me from my lemon status, sorry, rant over. -
06-12-2021, 11:40 PMTensaihime
Can I steal “lemon status?” I’ve harbored a bitter, bitter hatred for suddenly-otome-game-protagonist-level-of-useless cutscene!WoL since ARR.
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06-13-2021, 04:28 AMthegreatonemalWhich is why none of you should deal with hostages situations ever. We as the players could guess what she did but no one there on the ground knew that she was completely by herself and what she was trying to do. Considering she revealed herself to us and we didn't go find her. They were correctly being cautious.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush
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06-13-2021, 07:21 AMBlitzAceRushExcept our goal was to save Mikoto and after Misija "cleverly" kicked her only hostage nearly 10 feet away from herself when she was only holding save the queen, we should have moved, even on a class without a gap closer or any kind of mobility, the WoL has demonstrated speed and agility of a level high enough to advance towards Mikoto, grab her, send her back towards the resistance and be ready to deal with Misija should she attempt to rush you, draw an actual ranged weapon, or attempt to summon her "hidden" reinforcements. Worse still was later on in the scene, at a more volatile moment someone else does in fact just shoot her and surprise, it works fine, shame we didn't just do anything earlier and save the blades. There's a stark difference between caution and inaction and the WoL falls so far into inaction it's often aggravating, even though I understand the out of character reasoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreatonemal
But this is hardly the point of this topic.