Removal of Piety and Tenacity for Endwalker

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I have the solution. Make direct hit only meld able by dps.

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we'd just meld det in that case.

piety and ten just aren't needed given how easy the content is nowadays.

with all the dumb ilvl syncs SE puts on their lvl80 content, it pretty much removes your DH anyway

Piety has its place where it's used in gear - mainly for high end fights in prog, when you do new content for the first time (Holminister Switch dungeon in new expansion will tax a new healer's MP if the party is performing poorly or make it outright impossible to clear without the increased stats to not hardcast GCD heals), ultimates, or when syncing down fights. The effect of piety is especially apparent for WHM below lv 50 content - they don't have Assize or Thin Air to help with their MP management and if they aren't overgeared, it could be really difficult since all their GCD heals are MP expensive. A low-piety build is perferable when you and everyone else knows the fight, but it can lead to unrecoverable runs if the party is completely new once synced down. The easiest way to see potential problems when removing piety entirely would be looking at AST before the MP rework in Shadowbringers. AST didn't have any sources of MP regen outside of Lucid Dreaming so they were forced to either equip High Piety sets or Meld Piety to offset running out of MP from just spamming Malefic. Add in a couple extra Raises, and they'll always be MP negative. When Syncing down, ASTs would require piety to be in their gear or else they would run out of MP as materia bonuses are ignored when syncing down.

The rule of thumb with piety is add as much piety that makes you feel comfy. We start discarding piety only when we have knowledge of the fights & outgear them alot because we are able to minimize excessive healing, reduce the number of raises, and speed up the rate at which enemies die so less healing is required overall. I think it's a worthwhile substat to have for its use, but it definitely requires some adjustment to make it more viable compared to the rest.

As for tenacity, you have to stack a ridiculous amount of tenacity to see any use for the mitigation. Imo, it definitely needs to be adjusted, or else it's always more preferable to get the other substats instead for DPS.

Our AST uses a lot of Piety during prog, because a lot of deaths are expected and she NEEDS the MP. So much so that when we have content on farm and she's using her Fastro build it's "I won't be able to raise more than twice."

I don't think removal is the answer, but making them actually meaningful instead.

To be honest, is pretty hard for a newbie tank to figure by themselves why Tenacity makes very little difference regarding their defensives. The way the tooltip "sells" the stat is quite appealing.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I have the solution. Make direct hit only meld able by dps.

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Better solution!

Since they have been hellbent on making the game simpler to raise the skill floor, get rid of all the stats. Just give us ATK and DEF and call it a day.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I have the solution. Make direct hit only meld able by dps.

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How about no, and instead replace all instances of Tenacity and piety with Dhit.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Or. . . we could simplify stats so every job has a max of 3 substats to focus on? 2 primary ones and a 3rd "dump stat". My reasoning is pretty simple: Everyone hates getting that piece that has an "unwanted stat". A slight modification of the substats would make each substat more valuable if it was condensed from 5 to 3.

Tanks get: Crit, Skill speed, Tenacity (increases healing to them).
DPS get: Crit, Skill speed / Spell Speed / Direct Hit
Healers: Crit, Spell Speed, Piety (increases mp regen and healing done)

Lets be honest here, like OP said, there are certain "unwanted stat" that are ignored.

Tanks ignore Tenacity, healers largely ignore Piety and dps ignore Determination. This is despite the tooltips clearly showing that the developers want tanks to use Tenacity and healers to use Piety.

So much so that Tenacity and Piety are tank and healer only stats.

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To be honest I'd take tenacity over skill speed. the combat system is already enough button mashing so anything that speeds it up even more is avoided. even if it is minimal.

PIE and TEN are used.

PIE is to be melded to comfort and TEN is straight up part of some BiS.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

TEN is straight up part of some BiS.

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I have a hard time believing that.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I have a hard time believing that.

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WAR BiS uses TEN.