Healing being inherently punishing to optimize around is why we have the issues of SE not knowing what to do with SCH's Aetherflow, and why we have issue's with the WHM's Lilly system. It's why people complain that AST is capable of so much free healing. I get it. I truly do, because you gave the exact same statement I said, "It gives us something to opimitze around." but it's also part of the issue everyone seems to be having with SCH and WHM to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedxKayn
Just think, for SCH for example, they can get rid of Ruin II and potentially give us back Miasma, that way we have our multiple dots to manage, while still keeping the same general amount of buttons to manage. People are always complaining that Ruin II will always feel bad to use, so giving sch the 1.5 treatment means we don't have to utilize Ruin II and we can replace it's optimization with something else like having actual dot maintenance.
Does the Sage have a 1.5s GCD like the Astrologian?
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03-05-2021, 04:01 AMBrandedblade
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03-05-2021, 04:18 AMLiam_HarperWHM is currently the only class in the game where clipping is a part of gameplay and SCH pays high taxes to weave. I personally don't find trying to mitigate and optimize clunky, broken class design fun. I'd rather have smooth, well designed gameplay instead. If they don't add the 1.5 sec cast, both WHM and SCH badly need more free weave and their gameplay improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedxKayn
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03-05-2021, 04:39 AMQooErthey really need to bring back miasma 2 for better weaving and to heighten the skill ceiling of sch... giving sch something like ruin iv would also make weaving less punishing and give more room for optimizationQuote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
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03-05-2021, 04:49 AMZedxKaynFalse, SMN clips as well and so does BLM at least in the opener.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
WHM's gameplay is very fine, only SCH is kinda poor because of pet jank and aetherflow, neither of them have anything to do with 1.5 casts.
AST has the lowest aDPS and giving the other healers more weaving space will crush it. -
03-05-2021, 05:50 AMSemirhageClipping your GCD frequently is jank as hell. "Don't make the other healers play smoothly, my overpowered main job that currently dominates both healing power and raid DPS couldn't handle good design in its competition" isn't a reason to block said good design.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedxKayn
Now, I'm all for finding a different way to smooth out clipping if the design time allows, but "WHM's gameplay is very fine"? Puh-lease. GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE. -
03-05-2021, 06:08 AMZedxKaynYeah WHM is boring as hell but it's fine in what it's trying to do. Be immobile and do big DPS or big heals + having to optimize lily usage for mobility. Giving it constant weave spaces will 1) make WHM much more mobile and 2) yes lower the skill ceiling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Semirhage
WHM does not NEED weave spaces anywhere near as much as AST does. They don't have to deal with a ton of oGCD heals and most importantly, cards. Though an argument could be made for SCH for a 3rd nuke that deals more damage than Ruin but less than Broil with one weaving space.
If you want WHM to get one or two more weave spaces now and then, alright, but one every GCD is insane and would also only further homogenize healers. -
03-05-2021, 06:49 AMItMeThat's all we're asking for~Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedxKayn
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03-05-2021, 10:07 AMLiam_HarperI don't play SMN and can't speak for it but BLM is a very well designed class and years ahead of WHM. Between triplecast, swiftcast, procs and Xeno you get plenty of weave and you have BTL and AM for on-demand movement. One in the opener is hardly WHM levels of clip. WHM gets none of that, just a 30 sec window every Dia refresh then it has to literally dip into its healing lilies just to move or weave.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedxKayn
Outside of well practiced re-clears, healers have to react to unexpected situations more often, such as dropping a temp, excog or bene on a dps who got hit by an avoidable mech, needing plenary or temp to boost an emergency aoe heal, swift raise in general and so on. For WHM this very often results in a hard clip and for SCH either a clip or a tax that's almost as bad. There is nothing in WHM/SCH gameplay to smooth out this potential reactive aspect of gameplay and integrate oGCD's with casts, while AST flows nicely, weaving the needed oGCD's in with their GCD's. There's no reason for this clunkiness, it's not enhancing the experience.
We're just too used to how the devs have created healers that we're almost convinced it's meant to be that way. We're "meant" to pay dps tax. We're "meant" to be less mobile. The idea of mobile but more complex and engaging instead just doesn't even register to us, despite the fact it'd probably be more fun to play. Because it's meant to be clunky.
I mean really, you could give WHM/SCH the 1.5 sec cast and make AST's dps GCD instant. That keeps the identity intact. Then you have room for a much more engaging and challenging toolkit. -
03-05-2021, 10:18 AMZedxKaynA party member taking free damage seldom needs to be healed raight away in a way that causes clipping. 99% of the time you have time for at least a GCD or two and create a weave window with lilies or ruin for example. If it is urgent enough to warrant clipping, it'd warrant cast interruption too, AST included.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
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03-05-2021, 10:22 AMQooEr
even when not reacting to anything white mage clips just trying to do its rotation because assize doesn't line up with dia. also if you use dia's weave for assize as you should, you can only use 1 out of the 8 other ogcds whm has (3 of which should be used on cooldown). white mage desperately needs at least 1 or 2 more dps-neutral weave spots per minute.
even something as basic as making dia last 15 seconds (with adjusted potency) would be a significant improvement over white mages current state