The skill progression is atrocious

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Originally Posted by Lumberfoot

This game has one of the most boring early game experience I've ever had, and its because of the imo atrocious skill progression. ... Every other MMO I've ever played have had a fast skill progression in the beginning that pans out as your level increases, and I think there is good reason for that.

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The same complaint could be made about GW2, SW:TOR, Wildstar, WoW, etc. and one of my MMO pet peeves. Is it any shock that people don't know how to play their class when the skills that make the rotation works is saved for the capstone?

Like you've pointed out Square's practice of robbing lower level skills just so they can add more at the top makes playing at lower levels very dull. Coupled with the lengthy story grind that's just a huge turn-off for new players. Sooner or later Square will need a level squish.

So it really comes down to neglect for the early game? That would make sense because I've gotten the impression that the game almost solely balanced around the latest expansion.

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Originally Posted by AncientWillow

Blm just gets cds anyways, and just new fire or blizzard..

Blm is one of those that need needs thecd number cut in half, tyey have more cds than healers or support ranges or tanks.. they rlly need more spells outside fire,blizzard and thunder tbh...

But honestly a job should play completely differently when maxed otherwise theres no point in the levels anyways

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Playing BLM with the enochian timer and fire IV is vastly different than before imo. And I don't agree that the job should be completely different, it should have a core that is built upon as you level up. Otherwise you might invest a lot of time into something that ends up not being to your liking.

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Originally Posted by Lumberfoot

So it really comes down to neglect for the early game? That would make sense because I've gotten the impression that the game almost solely balanced around the latest expansion.

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Oh its not just early game, its whatever isnt current expansion. They'll rob last expansion skills to so they have slots for skills to add in for new expansions.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Leveling is so fast these days from 1-50 that it's not much of an issue too much, at least IMO. Though i do agree with the annoyance of losing moves every time you get level synced to a lower level. That always irks me.

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Yes, we level fast but most of the available content will be synced down since the real gatekeep is MSQ. I agree with OP, some changes will improve new player experiences and that's important for retention.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

https://i.imgur.com/a81BG0J.png
https://imgur.com/a/aObO1Fk


This is a really old screenshot of either ARR or early Heavensward, take a look at the skills you had at lvl 30 and then take a look at what skills you now have at lvl 30 on monk.

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This is why removing cross class was a mistake. All they had to do was remove the important bits and put them into role skills and trim down the useless ones (Like ruin for WHM) and if balance really was such a problem, which it isn't according to several interviews including a couple this year, preventing them from being used in savage.

Looking at that screenshot, we had 12, possibly 14 skills for monk at level 30 including two that aren't on the hotbar like rockbreaker (seen there in the log). we also had Keen flurry, Feint, Invigorate, Foresight, Bloodbath, and Blood for Blood (lance charge nowadays). Giving a total of 17 or 18 skills. 5 of which were optional ones the monk could choose between.

I'm a level 33 monk atm on my main, I have 8, and once I hit 34, one of those will make the other redundant, so it will still be 8 in practice.
I will remind people that monk has one of the more intact ARR kits at the present time.

i made a thread similar to this topic about how you cna greatly improve the early levle experience by just shuffling when you get skills so the progression feels more intuitive and level sync feels better overall. i really think every job should have its core function at level 50 and ideally their core gimmick at lv 30

There's only so many skills a job can have before there's just too many buttons to manage and/or too many buffs and debuffs to refresh. But I agree that something needs to be done about the early levels. One thing SE could do is introduce skills earlier and have more upgrades and added effects along the way. Some classes currently get as many as five abilities during HW; a few of those could be moved to earlier levels as weaker versions and given an upgrade in HW. WHM in particular could get their job gauge and the associated instant heal much earlier.

Level 30 in 2.x, and lvl 30 in 5.x are not really the same though.


You should more be comparing 52. 3/5tha of the max level at the time


Its much easier to level now, and the kit is spread out over 80 levels instead of 50.

Having no new skills at higher levels feels bad. But so does losing skills at lower levels.


Its really a no win situation because everyone has differing opinions.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Level 30 in 2.x, and lvl 30 in 5.x are not really the same though.


You should more be comparing 52. 3/5tha of the max level at the time


Its much easier to level now, and the kit is spread out over 80 levels instead of 50.

Having no new skills at higher levels feels bad. But so does losing skills at lower levels.


Its really a no win situation because everyone has differing opinions.

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I don't know if I would agree with there being a no win situation by moving most of the core skills to about lvl 50 and then getting 1-2 new skills per expansion, that way you would still get new additions to the job while avoiding hurting the early game. Also, if the job is fun to play at 50 you wouldn't need a whole lot of additional skills to keep you playing.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

... just animation, no new skills or mechanics post 50? That sounds... even more boring than the current progression. No more fun about finding out how rotations work each expansion.

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I'm especially bored when my job gets pruned when syncing down.
Current system is undeniably bad, and i personally see two options - full kit at lvl 50, or fixed level sync. FFXIV has the worst level sync system, and i wouldn't be surprised if it's going to "kill" the game sooner than later.