Healing a Paladin Tank, in my experience

There are a few good PLD's out there, but many many more bad 1's, and to varying degrees. It sounds like you got 1 of a lower skill. PLD does have a bit more mitigation and survival compared to a WAR, but it doesn't make a superior tank as ppl had hoped for. I have both WAR and PLD leveled and from my experience WAR has its "squishy" moments. When I'm out of cd's on WAR, well i'm out, PLD always seems to have a trick up it's sleeve. The key does seem to be like you said, management of cd's and mp, as well as getting out of AF gear into double/triple melded cobalt asap. AF gear, sadly imo, is complete trash. The way it should work is PLD has mitigation and should either A) stack more mitigation to reach a "cap" or B) stack hp to bridge the gap between them and WAR's. Where as WAR can either stack more hp, or more dmg output as this is directly tied to their survival. just my 2 cents

Don't use the af gear, it sucks. Use something with more VIT. PLD is still very much usable, people just prefer WAR 'cause of the dps. PLD should still take less dmg if geared correctly.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Don't use the af gear, it sucks. Use something with more VIT. PLD is still very much usable, people just prefer WAR 'cause of the dps. PLD should still take less dmg if geared correctly.

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This times a million =.=

Now Niko, I know that wasn't with our usual group lol. If it was, that's not cool and we have to talk with some people.

The biggest problem with Paladins and healing them is the 1k HP difference between it and Warrior. That 1k is quite a difference, especially since defense doesn't mean a whole lot against Primals. Paladin really just needs anotehr 500-700 HP if they're not going to change how the damage calculations work. That or Noctis's suggestion of a 15-20% damage taken reduction for Paladin. Shields should still mean something though, currently aside from a few skills they're fairly useless.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Don't use the af gear, it sucks. Use something with more VIT. PLD is still very much usable, people just prefer WAR 'cause of the dps. PLD should still take less dmg if geared correctly.

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However then we lose out on our enhanced skills. On something like Cover with the Surcoat, we're losing out on a good bit of MP regen because of it. Also I mean sure PLD can do it with specialized gear however any Warrior in full AF can do it just as well. I mean I've been using WAR to tank a lot lately and even with just full AF I have absolutely no issues staying alive, getting hate, holding hate or doing damage all at the same time. That's a problem.

Paladin can do it, you just have to work a lot harder.

I have WHM and Paladin, but mostly play WHM. Ifrit isn't a reall good gauge of how good a tank is. Ifrit is his own special kind of fight. Lots of Ifrit's damage is magical and you blocks/armor do nothing for. Few tanks, if any, stack fire resist to make the fight easier either.

The paladin's strength requires him to have melee around him. Divine Veil and Cover are a million times more useful if you have other melee around the paladin. Most fights, plays avoid using melee like it is the plague. Divine Veil makes keeping the melee of the party up so much easier and cover has tons of applications... when you have someone to use it on.

The reason, I feel, that the warrior is more popular is the warrior is easier to tank with. To tank with a warrior, you really just play like you are DPSing while throwing a few tank abilities into your rotation. The extra Hp makes a large buffer for error on both the whms and warriors parts. Paladins on the other hand, take more effort and planning, and understanding of your abilities. When with well played paladin, I generally do not have to heal; regen and stoneskin keeps them up. Warirors, on the other hand, I normally need to send more cures.

On Ifrit, I like a paladin can free up my time as a WHM. During jumps, the paladin can heal the party, heal himself, and raise someone. These little things free me up for more mana regen, raising party members, and rebuffing. Very handy.

Just hint about stoneskin, it makes Aegis Boon heals for zero. Lots of paladins and whms don't realize this, so good comms with your paladin is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Klive

The reason, I feel, that the warrior is more popular is the warrior is easier to tank with. To tank with a warrior, you really just play like you are DPSing while throwing a few tank abilities into your rotation. The extra Hp makes a large buffer for error on both the whms and warriors parts. Paladins on the other hand, take more effort and planning, and understanding of your abilities.

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Therein lies one of the other problems. Warriors can tank without hardly trying to actually tank. Paladins have to actually try to do the same. Even a bad Warrior could likely tank sufficiently. A bad Paladin though is just going to end up dead quickly. Paladins must be good to even stand a chance, Warriors can be mediocre and still excel.

I don't get it, Gladiator's can't dd..right, we all agree? But Marauders can, but when jobs came out, PLD isn't as good of a tank as WAR? when WAR can dd and PLD can't? Seems like devs purposely trying to make pld useless, god damnit how stupid are they, it has a shield and a sword? sword and board=tank, not axe. I want a dedicated tanking class, not a WAR that does dmg to get hate. That's bunk, it would be like creating a class right now that cured using tp (like dnc) and was better than whm or something, whm's would be pissed.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I don't get it, Gladiator's can't dd..right, we all agree? But Marauders can, but when jobs came out, PLD isn't as good of a tank as WAR? when WAR can dd and PLD can't? Seems like devs purposely trying to make pld useless, god damnit how stupid are they, it has a shield and a sword? sword and board=tank, not axe. I want a dedicated tanking class, not a WAR that does dmg to get hate. That's bunk, it would be like creating a class right now that cured using tp (like dnc) and was better than whm or something, whm's would be pissed.

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While I understand your frustrations, please try to keep it civil. The devs are people to and as such are perfectly capable of making mistakes. They've made adjustments to PLD already but they were not sufficient to dethrone Warrior as THE tank. I'm sure we'll see even more with 1.22.

@Arcell LOL no it wasn't with anyone in our linkshell or my other linkshell for that matter. You guys are great. I haven't been able to log in for awhile so have been away from the pc. You know I pug a lot because of the strange hours I keep. The original post is the overall vibe I get healing paladins in general and a particular Ifrit run was on my mind that night. I am not naming names because like I said in the original post that paladin looked like they were working very hard and keeping hate nicely, like most of the paladins I heal. I don't think they are slacking at all and I don't want to trash talk anyone.

Yeah, I don't think the game developers are stupid or anything like that either. I think they will continue to make adjustments so that it will get balanced. I have a lot of respect for them. Which is probably one of the reasons I felt comfortable sharing. I was just throwing out my experience because us white mages talk about our challenges when healing paladins to eachother a lot but I didn't notice any healing pov on paladins in the forum so I tossed my experience out there.

I am glad I posted because I am getting a clearer picture from all sides because of the feedback. I don't DD much and I have never tanked so this is extremely helpful to me. I might also tweek how I heal them too. (If I can ever get my game running again) I might make some gear swap macros to make my protect/regen/stoneskin as effective as possible and I will definitely remember to trade ss w/ the other healer instead of just tossing mine out whenever. I'll try to time it more precisely more often.

I won't be on the forums for awhile. Thanks again to everyone for the positive feedback.

Peace.

Paladins get a bad wrap, especially on ifrit. Warrior as more HP, more dps, more overall survivability, and can break horns with their combo WS. We the paladin are at a disadvantage.
That said, there is no reason a paladin can't tank the fight no problems, the win may not be as certain a lock, but it shouldn't be a death march for the group.
My paladin has exactly 3,999 hp (with food), not far off from a warrior, I have zero issues with hate, I have zero issues with MP (you can cast cover on the jumps with good timing).
But yes, all can agree this fight, like most fights/instances, are slanted to the warriors favor.