Deployment Tactics is Pretty Useless

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

I was providing best case scenarios to show how Deployment Tactics, even in the best circumstances, is an underwhelming ability.

Spread Adlo? Stronger shield than Succor’s, but weaker overall. If Succor would overheal, then 9 times out of 10 you won’t need the shield.
Spread Succor? It’s insanely difficult to do, but then you get a whopping 225potency shield for a 120s cooldown.

Yeah, you can find usages if you’re playing safely and not caring about your DPS, but Scholar already has a vastly superior safety tool that requires no setup - Sacred Soil.

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The point of shields are to reduce the damage the party takes, the raw healing aspect of it is a moot point in this scenario. It seems logical to me that one would deploy an adlo if they're more focused on mitigation over healing. I am aware of the value of Succor deploy from stormblood but with faerie deploys no longer possible it seems too niche to pull off effectively when you could just adlo deploy and be done with it.

And this discussion is not about sacred soil, I am aware of how powerful it is. I just fundamentally disagree that deployment tactics is a weak skill when it serves a slightly different functionality As far as the argument of dps goes. its going to be a given that unless you spare some aetherflow and swiftcast to slot a couple of energy drains into the Adlo -> Deploy. That the mere fact you're gcd healing is a dps loss. Yes we've established that.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

The point of shields are to reduce the damage the party takes, the raw healing aspect of it is a moot point in this scenario.

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If people aren't on 100% hp, then the raw healing equally as important as the shield HP. That's what shields are - a HP buffer.

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

If people aren't on 100% hp, then the raw healing equally as important as the shield HP. That's what shields are - a HP buffer.

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if that healing is either not needed or being provided by other sources, I would rather make the HP buffer stronger

EDIT: Didn't see your previous post there. Kinda funny that we were thinking along the same lines hehe

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Originally Posted by Kurando

If the SCH could spread another effect like Eye for an Eye used to, then perhaps it would feel like it has more use. Spreading Excog would be super nice though probably a bit OP, so maybe allow it to have a dual use; allowing Chain Stratagem to be spread to nearby targets. Least it's a useful utility for fighting mobs when group shielding isn't required.

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totally agree with you.

Deployment should be able to spread party member buffs such as galvanize as it does atm, but also should be able to spread enemy debuff skills like chain stratagem. this would be a really cool niche way to give SCH more utility and damage while not bloating its hotbar, and would also allow any other party buffs or strategems in the future to be applied to both single and multi targets, thus allowing for more planning and decision making within SCHs kit.

Yeah... I really only use Deployment Tactics in my opener and then just forget about it for the rest of the fight...
Which is a shame.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

if that healing is either not needed or being provided by other sources, I would rather make the HP buffer stronger

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If that healing is not needed or provided by other sources, why use a shield to begin with? Shields have special value when without them the party would die, otherwise shields are only extra hp that can go above the max hp so not that different from burst heals but being way more dps expensive (with the exception of seraph and consolation) than any other heal in the kit due to being tied to the gcd

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

If that healing is not needed or provided by other sources, why use a shield to begin with? Shields have special value when without them the party would die, otherwise shields are only extra hp that can go above the max hp so not that different from burst heals but being way more dps expensive (with the exception of seraph and consolation) than any other heal in the kit due to being tied to the gcd

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Because if I'm using deployment tactics, the idea is that I'm setting up shields to mitigate an upcoming mechanic. Not every group is so perfectly coordinated that the mitigation is guaranteed to come from other sources. I get that GCD-heal bad but again, not every scenario has perfectly coordinated players who'll cover for you.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Because if I'm using deployment tactics, the idea is that I'm setting up shields to mitigate an upcoming mechanic. Not every group is so perfectly coordinated that the mitigation is guaranteed to come from other sources. I get that GCD-heal bad but again, not every scenario has perfectly coordinated players who'll cover for you.

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The the question would be, why DT isntead of succor? the difference in shields is only 150 potency and outside ultimate that is such a negligible difference (and if you're playing ultimate without a coordinated team...sorry for you) that won't kill anyone, you will lose 80 less potency in damage and on top of that if people is damaged so the heal of succor is not overheal then it has higher healing per second than a spreadlo and since you have mentioned a non coordinated scenario the chances of the party not being topped I'd say are quite high.

In the end no matter which scenario you think, outside of downtime and mechanics where that 150 potency difference in shields is relevant (and this one can is strange and can be solved with coordination) DT is just a worse succor due to the lower hps and higher dps cost.

I've used deployment tactics a fair bit in fights, and while it's highly situational I wouldn't call it useless. For starters, the scenario of "Oh, people don't need healing now but I may want shields" comes up a lot actually. It's not like bosses are spamming AoEs back to back over the entire fight, there's often a long gap of time between AoEs where regens and such will likely get them to 100% before the next one. So, when I can see the boss is about to fire off another big AoE, I can adlo and deployment instead of using succor if all I want is the shield.

Yes, the shield may not be 100% required to keep people from dying, but it gives a little bit of a buffer to make healing them back up a little less scary. There's also cases like phase transitions in a lot of trial fights where the boss is untargetable for a period of time before massive damage. That's a period of time where I cannot attack the boss, where essentially putting an adlo shield on everyone is like getting a head start on healing the damage afterwards, when I want to get it taken care of ASAP because now I *can* attack the boss.

Also, a lot of the comments I'm seeing are like "Well, if people coordinate, if people do this, if they plan for that..." and like... have none of you done a learning party where people need a bit more babying? That's like saying Resurrection is a useless spell because people can just avoid dying.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

The the question would be, why DT isntead of succor? the difference in shields is only 150 potency and outside ultimate that is such a negligible difference (and if you're playing ultimate without a coordinated team...sorry for you) that won't kill anyone, you will lose 80 less potency in damage and on top of that if people is damaged so the heal of succor is not overheal then it has higher healing per second than a spreadlo and since you have mentioned a non coordinated scenario the chances of the party not being topped I'd say are quite high.

In the end no matter which scenario you think, outside of downtime and mechanics where that 150 potency difference in shields is relevant (and this one can is strange and can be solved with coordination) DT is just a worse succor due to the lower hps and higher dps cost.

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I have already explained why. deploying an adlo is still a stronger shield then Succor unless you can coordinate a proper Succor deploy with the group.

if I do not need Succors additional healing I will choose the stronger base shielding then the slightly weaker shield +healing. and if I'm using deploy then I'm factoring in the idea that I want the mitigation over healing in that moment.

as far as the damage goes.
1. I would already be losing the damage casting Succor that I would be casting adlo. oh boo hoo, I lost a gcd cast for a heal, I'm so bad at healing.

2. I can always ED on the Ruin II +Deploy weave I would be doing afterwards to make up for the lost damage that Ruin II would have incurred. Heck if I set up a swiftcast on the adlo I could use ED+Deploy on that weave to not only off set the damage loss but to give the server that moment it needs to register the shield on me and not whiff the deploy.