I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

This game has been plagued with the problem of trivializing mobs. Dungeons would be more dynamic with a "penalty system," where the lower your hp goes the more vul stacks you accumulate. This would make pulls more interesting and address the issue with rushing the party wall to wall. It would bring back that Aurum vale or Dark Souls strategizing back to the game.
Furthermore, they should consider not always linking enemies together as a "mob." Have a few more "detached" or "lone" enemies roaming around like the toad at Aurum vale. The dungeons definitely need more dynamism in terms of what can happen.

Alright, so...You don't like to rush. However, you are fine with handling big pulls. You are contradicting yourself here, so which is it?

As to the rushing vs taking one's time mentality goes I don't really care all that much so long as the dungeon/raid timer isn't draining excessively (i.e. 25-30 minutes left on the timer at the time of completion, or not at the time of completion). I would argue that 20-25 minutes from start to finish might be too long for most, but not everyone's skill level is the same and I'm a pretty patient guy. If a dungeon or raid takes a half an hour or so then that's just how it is. Do I wish it could have gone faster? Of course. But I realize that random people will always be random through the DF. Sometimes you have to play with the cards you've been dealt. Such is life.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Alright, so...

You don't like to rush. However, you are fine with handling big pulls. You are contradicting yourself here, so which is it?

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"Biggest pulls I can manage" is not the same as "wall to wall pulls."

2 pack pulls could still seem pretty slow to players expecting to pull everything possible.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

"Biggest pulls I can manage" is not the same as "wall to wall pulls."

2 pack pulls could still seem pretty slow to players expecting to pull everything possible.

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That isn't slow by any means though, unless there are other details we aren't privy to. Sure, it might not be as fast as some would like, but that isn't slow.

Rushing dungeons is the defacto standard for a few reasons;

Many players are entering dungeons through a daily system they want to finish efficiently.

The skill / coordination requirement behind rushing is very low, and it's therefore a widely accessible style of gameplay.



Due to said low skill floor, people may feel that going slowly feels obstructive and try to speed things along. This is particularly true for endgame roulettes like level 80 roulette or Expert in cases where it's clear no-one is new.

I dunno exactly what the OP meant and if people are reading things into what they said, but...
Just because you do something doesn't mean that you enjoy it, I do big pulls in dungeons too but I strongly prefer dungeons in MMO's that require you to go slower and where mobs are more difficult.
I think that even if you don't enjoy doing big pulls you'll still feel pressured to do it and go along with it because it's expected at this point.
That doesn't mean that you think that it's fun tho.

I also think that there's a difference between big pulls and rushing, the Tank pulling big groups, AoE:ing then moving on to the next with everyone following the Tank I don't think is rushing.
DPS running and teleporting ahead of the Tank and aggroing with ranged abilities is rushing.
Basically you're already going fast but then there's people who are just constantly trying to push it even faster.
I just had a DPS in one of my groups who did this and for some reason they'd also stun mobs as I was sprinting to pull the next one just to try and single-target it down grabbing aggro in the process.

The OP even mentioned a healer running ahead and aggroing mobs which the OP isn't comfortable with as the Tank.
That to me is rushing and different than just big pulls alone.

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Originally Posted by Psytic

Blame WoW. Everyone has the WoW Mythic I'm being timed must run fast mentality now.They have to chain pull the whole dungeon like MMOs are Diablo 3 or something. Id rather less trash mobs and larger hp enemies personally.

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It doesn't stem from WoW, people need to stop acting like that game spawns nothing but bad ideas and devils. This game's design encourages the faster/larger pull playstyle on its own. We've been doing large pulls for more experienced players as a norm here for longer than mythic's been a thing.

•Roulettes and the daily dungeon runs means players want to get through the content quickly.
•Many dungeons get a bit dull when you've seen them for the seventh time today while farming tomestones. People want out fast.
•Enemy mobs in dungeons aren't really a threat when you pull small/single packs, so you might as well grab more and just AoE them down quickly.
•Players overgearing means they can pull more so you might as well.
•Healer's have almost nothing to do when you pull small so they want larger pulls.
•People just like seeing a lot of numbers across the screen when they AoE
•Flare + Foul = Fun
•etc

There's just no reason for an experienced player to not pull larger and faster aside from personal preference, in which case they may clash heads with the group.

It's just also how games in general are nowadays, people back in the day were genuinely trash even in the top guilds because MMO's were still fairly new and people were learning.
Nowadays everything is a quick google search away and has been theorycrafted for decades and there's a lot of overlap and you just naturally learn because other people push you to while playing.

Go back and look at old footage of the best players in the world and they were backpeddling and standing in the fire etc lol, Vanilla WoW raid content barely even had mechanics but people still managed to fail at the ones that existed ( in fairness a lot of people still do that ).
It's a lot harder to challenge the players nowadays than it used to be.
Even in WoW Classic where there is a lot of natural obstacles in front of you like mana and threat generation people still find a way and things do move faster than they used to.
When I played it when it first came out I honestly swapped to a Priest because playing a Warrior Tank was honestly one of the worst experiences I've ever had because people were still stuck in the modern mentality in every single group.

Edit: The max level dungeon drought is very real too I'd agree with that.
I am basically just mainly doing the same two dungeons every day...

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Alright, so...You don't like to rush. However, you are fine with handling big pulls. You are contradicting yourself here, so which is it?

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That's exactly the thing though. You can pull 2 packs and burn them down reasonably fast, but it's not a wall-to wall pull and someone gets impatient and starts pulling ahead wanting more. That's rushing and those players who don't want to rush aren't exactly looking for snails pace dungeons either. In the 2 pack pull scenario you can miss a cd, the healer doesn't have to be amazing and it's fine, the pace is such that you can generally chat a little as you go or pause for 2 seconds for a drink if you wanted. The overall dungeon is over in good time, maybe a few minutes more at most.

But it's not good enough for some players. Most dungeons are actually fine, but you still get those individuals who want an all-out race to the finish like with no stops. That's why I could tank Savage fine, but I'd avoid Normal mode leveling roulette, it's just not for me.

I don't rush either but I also rarely do dungeons without my partner anyway so he's always the healer. Tough turtles for any DPS that are looking to rush through for their daily rewards so they can go rush through something else or something. I'll go however fast I want, whether it's one group at a time, two, three, etc. and if anyone runs ahead because they don't like my pace, they can die, because I won't save them and my partner won't heal them.

If people want speedruns, they can use the PF. People can say I'm "being mean :c" by slowing everyone down, but it's funny that people only worry about inconveniencing the people who want to go fast, and not that rushing is annoying or boring for people who'd rather go at a different pace. This game (and every other game, for that matter) is full of people with different playstyles. You get what you get in DF, and the tank ultimately carries more weight in that scenario. If you want to go faster, be a tank.

And no, I'm not accepting counterarguments. I'm agreeing with OP about not wanting to rush, so don't waste your time trying to pressure me into changing my stance. :D