Current Dungeon Environment is Extremely Toxic

In 99% of situations, I think that the tank should set the pace, that's a privilege of the job.
They can use their common sense to decide if we are likely to win some time doing wall to wall.
Are all party members in cut-scene at the start of the dungeon? newbies? What type of DPS/heals are in the party? Is their gear is ok?

As a WHM usually, I don't care either way. If anything, I want the tank to take a firm decision:
Either we take our time and we pull/kill stuff as we go OR we all sprint, wall to wall and I switch to holy machine.
But I hate if we half do it. Like we start DPSing, I place a Asylum, then we move... that is a NO! XD

tank doesn't set the pace, there's no privilege to wasting 10 minutes of the whole groups time just cuz your icon is blue. tanks also do the exact same things (aoe combo + cooldowns) when tanking 5 mobs or 20 so i dont know why people keep parroting the contrary

the group sets the pace

tank sets the pace. that's how it is in any MMO. the group can request the tank to pull bigger but ultimately the tank has the privilege to set the pace. It's the toughest role to play and anyone who's willing to play the role gets rewarded with that privilege.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

tank doesn't set the pace

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Let's agree to disagree. In 6/7 years of playing this game, I have seen people asking/agreeing on the pace at the start of a dungeon maybe like... 3 times?

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Originally Posted by QooEr

tank doesn't set the pace, there's no privilege to wasting 10 minutes of the whole groups time just cuz your icon is blue. tanks also do the exact same things (aoe combo + cooldowns) when tanking 5 mobs or 20 so i dont know why people keep parroting the contrary

the group sets the pace

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Oh yes it is and if you wanna set the pace youre welcome to get one of those blue icons yourself. Ofc its not that black and white but still... its a job not many like to do.

Its not the hardest job, but still... in the end i get a 3 min que while you might wait 20 lol

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Originally Posted by Yuella

tank sets the pace. that's how it is in any MMO. the group can request the tank to pull bigger but ultimately the tank has the privilege to set the pace. It's the toughest role to play and anyone who's willing to play the role gets rewarded with that privilege.

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The tank's only "privilege" in that situation is that they'll get an instant queue into a new dungeon when the party inevitably kicks them for trying to force the group into going slow (or fast, if its the opposite situation.)

Its a team game and majority rules. You're not special just because you happen to be on a job with the blue icon.

"toughest role to play" let's not act like the tanks job gets harder between pull sizes. you hit cooldowns and spam your aoe whether you pull small or wall to wall.

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Originally Posted by Kalameet

This part is what's telling me that you didn't even bother to read the majority of my post, as it's always been the opposite scenario: elitists and people with nothing better to do than be angry trying to force their methods onto everyone else.

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I did read your whole post, which is why I pointed out that right now we have two options to play through dungeons: Small pulls and big pulls. Neither is enforced by the game and its up to the party to decide which way they want to go. Either such an agreement is found within a party or everyone is better off if that specific party stops to exist - by disbanding, votekicking or someone leaving. Not everyone has to play with everyone and people can enjoy different things within the game - thats why its great if the game allows us to enjoy aspects in different ways.
What you are trying to do is enforce your playstyle onto everyone by removing those options - right now everyone has the freedom to look for a party that fits their needs and wishes. That Trusts are available adds yet another option.

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Originally Posted by Kalameet

You do realize it's not that much different than say having music playing in the background, right? And that it's possible for some people to focus on a couple things at once? That's called multi-tasking. If there's a situation where I really do need to focus, then I can just click mute or pause, do the thing that requires focus, then click it back on again.

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I am aware of how multitasking works, yes - its quite funny that you're bringing it up, because "true" multitasking doesnt work. You can only "focus" on multiple things at once if (a) one of those tasks is basically automatic or (b) the two tasks require different brain functions. My guess would be that you can have a stream in the background running because you're so familiar with the dungeon in question that you dont really need to think about that all that much anymore - which is probably the case for most people, which is why dungeons are a rather boring (but tomestone-efficient) chore for most people, which is why they want to get them over with as soon as possible. Thats usually around 15 minutes per dungeon, not 20-25.

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Originally Posted by Kalameet

I have never attempted to votekick someone for wanting to go too fast. Not sure where you're pulling that accusation from.

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I should have been more clear on that being a general "you" in a hypothetic scenario, not directed at you personally.

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Originally Posted by Kalameet

You'd be surprised how many people I've seen get wrecked on basic mechanics, and you're also ignoring sprouts or just anyone doing a dungeon for the first time.

Honestly, you're entire response feels extremely passive aggressive and judgmental for no real reason other than me bringing up a legitimate issue with the community.

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I repeat: Dungeons are laughable easy - even if people fail mechanics. It takes several, repeated fails and/or a healer whos basically afk to actually cause a wipe. Being new also doesnt change the fact that dungeons are pretty easy and mechanics extremly forgiveable. I think one of the last instances when I had someone new in a dungeon was a tank in Holminster who managed to collect 5 vul-stacks on the first boss. We still didnt wipe. Thats what I'm talking about: Even if you fail mechanics multiple times, you'll get through the fights. As hard as I'm trying: I cant recall the last time I saw a group wipe in a dungeon where the wipe wasnt caused by someone DC'ing.

In regards to new people: My personal experience with the community is that people are generally very understanding and helpful towards people who communicate that its their first time and to those who show that they're trying their best - even if that best isnt quite up there with the "meta" yet. There is less patience for people who are just "lazy" - who are in a position to know better and yet refuse to play better for... reasons.

Its my impression that this isnt so much a general problem with the community, but a personal problem you have with certain ways the community has established - and you're not trying to change that by appealing to the community, but by changing the game to only allow for it to be played the way you want.
You show a lack of respect for the time of your fellow players by prioritising your own needs, that could be satisfied in other ways (I've given my suggestions), and you call those who'd rather not put up with that "toxic"? There are some very easy solutions to your problem - non of which include taking away options from other people by enforcing your prefered way of playing through the games design.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

tank sets the pace. that's how it is in any MMO. the group can request the tank to pull bigger but ultimately the tank has the privilege to set the pace. It's the toughest role to play and anyone who's willing to play the role gets rewarded with that privilege.

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The only privilege a tank has is to get punched in the face a lot. Hardly the toughest role; you run to a mob, do an AoE combo, and press a few cool downs. The only "privilege" I see with this mindset is the massive ego that comes along with it.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

Let's agree to disagree. In 6/7 years of playing this game, I have seen people asking/agreeing on the pace at the start of a dungeon maybe like... 3 times?

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Then you would think in those 6-7 years you would realize that whomever you get in your party sets the pace. If I, the tank, got to set the pace all the time, then all my dungeons would end in the same short amount of time. But they don't. Just because you run to the mobs first just to get smacked around in the face does not make you de facto pace maker of the party.

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Originally Posted by TyrTry

The only privilege a tank has is to get punched in the face a lot. Hardly the toughest role; you run to a mob, do an AoE combo, and press a few cool downs. The only "privilege" I see with this mindset is the massive ego that comes along with it.

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You're not wrong, but it's more than that. The tank's job is to keep mob attention on them and allow everyone else to do what they need to do. If the tank is pulling every mob at once and needing to move every half a second because they pulled mobs with cleaves or AoE swings, it screws with melee DPS positioning, AoE positioning, overworking healer and tank resources, and more. At that point the tank isn't doing their job.

Or if they leave a ranged mob that would normally be a priority target to stand back and nuke the party away from the rest of the pack because tank was too busy running forward like an idiot. Or a tank that gets so absorbed in running forward they don't even notice the healer said they were going AFK briefly and the tank gets the party wiped as a result. Or the tank that blindly runs in a boss encounter while people doing a dungeon for the first time are still in cutscenes.

I've seen just about every manner of blatant incompetence, all with an unnecessary desire to shave a minuscule 60 seconds off the completion time.