Toxicity, Kindness, Abuse and the Exploitation of Kindness

Yeah, have to agree, if your story is as you say - asking them to kick the bad healer is fine after said healer has demonstrated such poor performance that it is impacting the raid.

People are always so afraid of using vote kick, but it's there for a reason. Every player needs to understand that if they suck so bad it stops progress in a dungeon, they can be kicked and it is their fault. If you cant be bothered to learn the game and try to play it to an ok manner (which is incredibly easy for FFXIV due to the low skill floor), then dont get shocked and b.hurt that you get called out and/or kicked.

Someone sucking at the game and preventing other people from enjoying the content isnt acceptable. People need to really switch the way they think: It's better to be the carry, than get carried.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

That Instance has 2 healers per group, how is it the fault of 1 Healer?

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As a main-healer, I guess I can answer that.
->If my co-healer in a full group happens to die a lot, there's only so much I can do alone for keeping the group alive. When my MP are healthy and tank / damage-dealers don't eat every AOE, I can solo-heal a lot until things become troublesome -- BUT if people aren't capable to avoid orange pools, it's essential to have a partner who works together with me for keeping everyone alive.

There might be more to this story because we're only getting one side here, but just based on what the OP said, I give him credit for keeping an eye on Group B and being Johnny on the spot with all those rezzes even though he was on a DPS job, assuming what he said was true.

But I also think calling for someone to be kicked rather than asking them what's going on first is going to rub everyone the wrong way, even if you're in the right. And I can't really blame them. Whenever I'm in a group or raid and someone is underperforming, especially if they are a tank or healer, I always ask them euphemistically, "Tank, everything okay?" Which is a very nice way of saying "WTF are you doing?" I'm quick to that if I'm the healer.

In the OP's situation, something just seems off. There are two healers in every group, so not sure how one healer can wipe the group instantly like that.

This was back when Orbornne was still relevant content. There are some mechanics where you HAVE to have 2 healers. Take TG Cid’s doom for example. You mighy barely be able to get everyone back to 100% with only 1 healer, but you won't have enough mana for the next mechanic. Especially if you barely have any mp in the first place from solo healing.

I suppose I should have communicated more. But that in itself may be seen as being "toxic", no?
Something like "Tank, everything okay?" is usually followed with "U mad bro?" after all.

Your best bet when doing anything in this game is to take things as they come and move on. Sometimes you get unlucky and get all the knuckleheads in one duty, and it's your choice to stick it out or leave. No matter what you choose, just don't dwell on it. It's a pretty good chance that your next run will be better and staying upset at people you likely won't see again just hurts yourself.

Should have called them out sooner and removed them a lot sooner. Idc if you do not feel well, someone died in your family, pool is on fire, power is going out etc . . . (Have heard each of these one time or another) if you queue for something knowing full well that you will not be able to perform then in my eyes you are scum as my old man would say.

Shit happens, but do not force a group to deal with it, leave without having the group to try a carry your dead weight through the content cause you might be having a bad day.

For the love of The Twelve, learn to write in paragraphs. Storytelling doesn't work well in bullet points.

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Originally Posted by Shuuchi

- If the whm had gone in as dps, none of this would have happened. She could have leeched off the rest of raid and no one would have noticed. Why did she choose such an important role?

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I can attest to this being true...though my party was the one with a DRG who had 100% broken gear, and nothing to replace it. He tried his best, and we - being a premade group of 7 - decided what the hell, lets keep him in so he can learn it(his first run after all). It was actually kind of fun trying to keep him alive(I was PLD at the time).

But a healer is definitely something, especially in those early days of the raid, not something you want to go in there with half assed.

You should have never bothered to raise somebody who keeps dying over and over and over. Complete waste of MP, not worth it. If players are holding back a whole raid, they need to be kicked. I don't care if they aren't feeling well. Get them out of there.

Your biggest issue was in calling out someone who wasn't in your alliance.... I'm also not insisting you were wrong or right in the matter but that's where the main issue "started" for you (well other than wiping a gazillion times).

When you call out someone in your own group and ask them to be kicked, the entire group can easily see the bad egg, eggs. When you call out someone specifically from another alliance only the people who were paying attention to whole shebang will know where you're coming from (I also know several people who do alliance raids on jobs that can't rez and therefore do not use the alliance bars at all.. people like that wouldnt be able to piece it together). As for why that group wasn't "fixing" things on there end without insistence, well there could have been dialogue going on in that group (maybe she mentioned she was new or not feeling well at the start) and they were "okay" with the situation for the most part.. again not saying it's right because that raid really did need all hands on deck during it's expansion (still need several hands just can get by without all hands) but that could have been why they didn't take care of it.

I don't think you would have finished that raid as it was without the changing of the guard there hypothetically could have been a "better way" to handle trying to get it done... we each take that risk when we run content, do we want to call it quits and take the penalty or risk coming off being the bad guy/being accused of being in the wrong... that's just the way it goes sometimes.

Must have been some convo with the FC mate since this was a while back though.