Time is Running Out for the Ascian's Plan?

It does seem odd for them to be pushing as hard as they are. Seen from the viewpoint of beings who have existed for thousands of years, why not just... stop? Take a step back, let the WoL die, and then move on? The guy isn't immortal, and constantly trying to kill him has only made things worse. Seems like at some point they should decide to stop doubling down and try a different route other than another really direct death weapon.

Unless there is some extra variable going on, there really doesn't seem to be any reason to rush.

Yes i did think the same, they should have moved back to other shards, make new ascians and play the waiting game. even IF the saurce gets the allagan tech, in the end it would collapse some day... I dont get the rush.

I think it's because the First is ready to rejoin but the WoL keeps preventing calamities in the Source. That's why Elidibus let Urianger send Minfilia to the First to stop the Flood to prevent the First from becoming unusable like the Thirteen

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Originally Posted by Yuella

I think it's because the First is ready to rejoin but the WoL keeps preventing calamities in the Source. That's why Elidibus let Urianger send Minfilia to the First to stop the Flood to prevent the First from becoming unusable like the Thirteen

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Elidibus didn't let that happen. Urianger made it happen by outsmarting Elidibus and hijacking his plan for manipulating the Warriors of Darkness into bringing about the calamity. Elidibus wouldn't have needed to send Minfilia to the First to save it for later because he was going to rejoin it then and there.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The two methods aren't as different as you're simplifying them to be.

The Ascians' ultimate aim is destabilising the world's aether to the point that it triggers a calamity. Primals - and stoking people's fears to encourage them to summon primals - are means rather than an end goal.

Meanwhile, Black Rose is very much an aetherial weapon, not just a chemical one. It's not a poison - it kills by halting a person's life energies so they stop breathing. It shifts energies towards umbral/Light, making it a match for the First's Light-soaked state. That what made it seem ideal for Emet-Selch's plan - although in the end it sounds like it may have worked too well.

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They're actually radically different. Primals rely on people to shape them, summon them, and to feed them. Faith, crystals, will to attack or defend etc. Not all primals are antithetical to the planet. Ramuh for instance is mostly content to gorge on crystals and keep to the Sylphland as a guardian.

Individual Primals of the tier that we deal with in the 2.0 MSQ aren't enough to cause a Calamity, and they all have elements that do not shift the planet's aether toward a singular aspect, since we basically rotate through the whole wheel.

Then, the primal big enough to cause Calamity, like Bahamut, strikes at the planet itself, though it may be intent on assaulting mankind.

Blackrose is a chemical weapon that directly kills the people, not the land. They bring about the 8th Calamity by killing people only. Since no one can live through exposure to this chemical, it's more deadly than any primal, and it changes the lay of the planets aether, how I wonder? What with mass death by aetherial stasis? It's Light aspect, right? I kind of don't understand how it caused damage to the planet by only killing people.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Blackrose is a chemical weapon that directly kills the people, not the land. They bring about the 8th Calamity by killing people only. Since no one can live through exposure to this chemical, it's more deadly than any primal, and it changes the lay of the planets aether, how I wonder? What with mass death by aetherial stasis? It's Light aspect, right? I kind of don't understand how it caused damage to the planet by only killing people.

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The benefit of Black Rose to the Ascians is that it is Light-aspected, thus is exactly what they need to create a Light-aspected disaster on the Source that will open the aetherial floodgates and allow the First's aether to flow into the Source. They're not trying to kill the land, and the death of a few armies is nothing to fret about.

Except, as I said earlier, it seems like the resulting calamity may have created destruction far beyond what they needed or intended, and continued to spread far beyond the initial wave of destruction.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I still remember Lahabrea's little line back in the Praetorium about how the world's laws would become twisted beyond repair unless Hydaelyn was removed and Zodiark revived.

I initially dismissed it as the ramblings of a madman but after everything we learned in ShB, I'm wondering if maybe the world really is somehow headed towards destruction again and that stopping the Ascians wouldn't actually do anything to prevent it.

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I've been thinking about this. I wonder if Lahabrea was correct in saying that Hydaelyn was the reason for the imbalance in nature. What if we discover at some point, that Zodiark does in fact need to return to redress the balance, however the Ascians' second part of their plan about sacrificing the remaining people on the Source to return their loved ones must also be stopped.

Balance simply means that both Hydaelyn and Zodiark must co-exist to keep each other in check. Them being the manifestations of Light and Dark.

Of course, this doesn't explain what the "sound" was that caused the Final Days to begin with.

Well, it was intended to just kill people initially though that wasn't how it ended up playing out and it did end up harming the land based on what we saw in the Tales from the Shadows chapter Worlds Forsaken) https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../#sidestory_03)

"Black Rose wrought immeasurable destruction to organic life-forms, resulting in widespread environmental upheaval. The ambient aether ceased to flow along its normal channels and stagnated, rendering the land barren and uninhabitable. Inevitably, the wild imbalance of natural energies affected neighboring regions and, in some cases, led to sudden and unpredictable alterations in flora and fauna. Overnight, the crops on which man relied for sustenance became toxic, further increasing the death toll. In the aftermath of these unprecedented disasters, the communities formed by sentient beings fell into disarray, and all forms of societal organization, from small settlements to entire nations, were abandoned as individuals struggled desperately to avoid annihilation.

It did not take long for the cascading environmental repercussions to be felt in Garlean territory. Due to the aftereffects of Black Rose, the ceruleum that once supported daily life in the Empire and powered its magitek armies failed to combust. The machines duly fell silent, bereft of the energy required to set them in motion."

During the latter half of Stormblood we kept seeing NPCs referring to a 'thinning of the aether' in many places, which in Shadowbringers we found out was a result of the increase of Umbral polarity aether leaking in from the First. As we know from the events from the Events of the Eden that Umbral aether tends to suspend things in place. All it really took was an extra push from this extra aether to cause damage to everything around it which was enough of a push to cause the calamity causing the flood of aether to cause Black Rose to spread like a plague.

It is pretty much the reason that even after 200 years civilization has not recovered as the land has still not worked out to restore the proper polarity between Astral and Umbral during that time.

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Originally Posted by Draginhikari

It is pretty much the reason that even after 200 years civilization has not recovered as the land has still not worked out to restore the proper polarity between Astral and Umbral during that time.

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Originally they may have planned another Calamity that would have "restored the balance" while causing a lot more destruction. Thinking on it though...that may have been their original plan with Bahamut. The 7th Calamity is released, the Ascians convince people to release a Calamity of Light (powered by the First's destruction) that would cause just as much destruction while balancing things out.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Originally they may have planned another Calamity that would have "restored the balance" while causing a lot more destruction. Thinking on it though...that may have been their original plan with Bahamut. The 7th Calamity is released, the Ascians convince people to release a Calamity of Light (powered by the First's destruction) that would cause just as much destruction while balancing things out.

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That is kind of the interesting thing about the 7th Calamity in particular. Most of the calamities seem to have the type of impact the 8th Calamity did and was a full reset of civilization. However, in the case of the 7th, the interference meant Bahamut's Rampage was exclusive almost entirely to Eorzea and was only a temporary setback. It makes you wonder if Louisoix interference against Bahamut allowed the coming of the 8th Calamity sooner or as your stating if that was always the intention.

Due to the timescale of the Shards, it makes it hard to tell when the flood of light started from our perspective. For the First that was a 100 years ago but for the Source... it really is not clear nor do we know how long it takes for the Asicans to start these processes on the shards.