The Devs have no idea what they are doing with FFXIV’s crafting and economics..

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I onced asked what REWARDS hardcore crafters want. All I get is answers that contridict what they have said before and excuses cause the community really does not know. I am almost at the point of linking peoples silly posts where they go back on crap they have said just to watch them fumble for an explanation or dodge the topic entirely. Good example saying you dont care about gil in one thread then complaining about the value and the effect eaiser crafting as on value in another thread. If you dont care about gil then why the hell would you care about the value of the item!!!

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Well stated.

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Originally Posted by LostCroisanf

yah in other words they have no idea what they are doing lol 2.0 - 3.0 they had a formula in place. 4.0 they give us prudent touch to make things easy. now in 5.0 they just turn everything into a “super easy” type of difficulty. also, “Expert Recipes” are just a mini game...it’s not endgame at all. endgame implies you get some form of accomplishment out of it, like savage tier gear. we aren’t getting gear at all. just some “skysteel tools” that are basically relics that anyone can do.

“Expert Recipes” are just an over glorified mini game with useless and meaningless leaderboards...along with lame rewards. that’s like saying gold saucer is endgame, it’s just a collection of meaningless mini games

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Each time someone brings up "better gear" as a reward, I have to ask: What for? What would be the benefit of better crafting gear? To me gear is just a tool, something that allows me to achieve my real goal (an exception is, ofc, glamour-gear. Even though that kinda helps achieving the end-goal of being pretty...)

For raiding its quite simple - it allows for either faster clears or more mess ups (allowing even people who dont play on world-first-level to eventually clear content).
How would this be transfered over to crafting? Shaving of a few seconds of your macro? Enabling you to craft the super-endgame-recipes? That will reward you with better gear to allow you to craft the ultimate-endgame recipes, which include the mega-crafted gear to end all crafted gears?

I really dont know where this desire for better gear comes from when everything in the game can currently be crafted with the gear we have - you'd need to introduce some kind of recipes that then required this better gear to be attempted. And those recipes would then have to be rewarding again...

You might have a point that SE isnt really sure what they're doing - but I dont think all those hardcore-crafters posting threads like this know what they really want either. You say better gear would be a good reward - but why? Why should anyone try to get better gear right now?

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Each time someone brings up "better gear" as a reward, I have to ask: What for? What would be the benefit of better crafting gear? To me gear is just a tool, something that allows me to achieve my real goal (an exception is, ofc, glamour-gear. Even though that kinda helps achieving the end-goal of being pretty...)

For raiding its quite simple - it allows for either faster clears or more mess ups (allowing even people who dont play on world-first-level to eventually clear content).
How would this be transfered over to crafting? Shaving of a few seconds of your macro? Enabling you to craft the super-endgame-recipes? That will reward you with better gear to allow you to craft the ultimate-endgame recipes, which include the mega-crafted gear to end all crafted gears?

I really dont know where this desire for better gear comes from when everything in the game can currently be crafted with the gear we have - you'd need to introduce some kind of recipes that then required this better gear to be attempted. And those recipes would then have to be rewarding again...

You might have a point that SE isnt really sure what they're doing - but I dont think all those hardcore-crafters posting threads like this know what they really want either. You say better gear would be a good reward - but why? Why should anyone try to get better gear right now?

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ive seen you post a lot usually when someone doesn’t like how easy and casual crafting has become, and you argue with them nonstop lol idk if trolling or not but ..... what for? I dunno...what’s the benefit of you wearing a neo ishgardian top of fending? what’s the benefit of you wearing a deep shadow helm of fending? what’s the benefit of you being a roe? what’s the benefit of you glaming your gear to look like a battle maid? that’s a mildly silly question..

obviously of course, because you like it, and it benefits you, right? so why can’t players that like hardcore things get what they like and what benefits them? because they are “eLiTisT?”

people in general want really hard-to-get items to show for, let’s face it. whether it be skill locked or rng locked. like favor gear in HW. grindy, almost impossible to achieve, but as a result, it makes it worth showing off and using. it’s like a trophy, a pride of accomplishment of something difficult. and while also simultaneously benefiting crafters. tools, gear, and rng all benefits crafters. how exactly does a mount, title, and glam benefit a crafter? now, if these were extremely unattainable to get, I can see why crafters would want it. but it won’t be. it’ll be a cake walk, as usual. you know how Yoshida rolls. Mr. Casual a-hoy comes to save the day, as usual lol

you agreed with me, they don’t know what they are doing, period. they need someone who does know what they are doing. I think they should replace Yoshida with someone else, or have someone else in charge of FFXIV’s economy/crafting/gathering

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I onced asked what REWARDS hardcore crafters want. All I get is answers that contridict what they have said before and excuses cause the community really does not know. I am almost at the point of linking peoples silly posts where they go back on crap they have said just to watch them fumble for an explanation or dodge the topic entirely. Good example saying you dont care about gil in one thread then complaining about the value and the effect eaiser crafting as on value in another thread. If you dont care about gil then why the hell would you care about the value of the item!!!

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are u trolling? ive read the posts in this section and people have always said what they want. you’re intentionally ignoring what you’ve been told and asking questions you already know the answer to hunny

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Originally Posted by LostCroisanf

ive seen you post a lot usually when someone doesn’t like how easy and casual crafting has become, and you argue with them nonstop lol idk if trolling or not but ..... what for? I dunno...what’s the benefit of you wearing a neo ishgardian top of fending? what’s the benefit of you wearing a deep shadow helm of fending? what’s the benefit of you being a roe? what’s the benefit of you glaming your gear to look like a battle maid? that’s a mildly silly question..

obviously of course, because you like it, and it benefits you, right? so why can’t players that like hardcore things get what they like and what benefits them? because they are “eLiTisT?”

people in general want really hard-to-get items to show for, let’s face it. whether it be skill locked or rng locked. like favor gear in HW. grindy, almost impossible to achieve, but as a result, it makes it worth showing off and using. it’s like a trophy, a pride of accomplishment of something difficult. and while also simultaneously benefiting crafters. tools, gear, and rng all benefits crafters. how exactly does a mount, title, and glam benefit a crafter? now, if these were extremely unattainable to get, I can see why crafters would want it. but it won’t be. it’ll be a cake walk, as usual. you know how Yoshida rolls. Mr. Casual a-hoy comes to save the day, as usual lol

you agreed with me, they don’t know what they are doing, period. they need someone who does know what they are doing. I think they should replace Yoshida with someone else, or have someone else in charge of FFXIV’s economy/crafting/gathering



are u trolling? ive read the posts in this section and people have always said what they want. you’re intentionally ignoring what you’ve been told and asking questions you already know the answer to hunny

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No not trolling mrs. Twit asking seriously cause read this section often as well and watched people go back on what they said they wanted. Care to join the list?

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

No not trolling mrs. Twit asking seriously cause read this section often as well and watched people go back on what they said they wanted. Care to join the list?

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I think half of the people on your list are the same person on different characters. I've just been putting them all on ignore personally.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I think half of the people on your list are the same person on different characters. I've just been putting them all on ignore personally.

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I wont go that far I just want too see the hardcore crafters get what they want reward wise. Some want gear, some want gil, others just want to show off I want to see them state it loudly and too just ignore the causal crafting communities complaints when they do state it. I am causal crafter I feel star gear is good enough end game for someone like me and expert should be fully dedicated to the hardcore community and that SE should not slack off on rewards for it. I've just seen some though who keep going back on their chocies. SE will listen if people just need to bark louder.

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Originally Posted by LostCroisanf

ive seen you post a lot usually when someone doesn’t like how easy and casual crafting has become, and you argue with them nonstop lol idk if trolling or not but ..... what for? I dunno...what’s the benefit of you wearing a neo ishgardian top of fending? what’s the benefit of you wearing a deep shadow helm of fending? what’s the benefit of you being a roe? what’s the benefit of you glaming your gear to look like a battle maid? that’s a mildly silly question..

obviously of course, because you like it, and it benefits you, right? so why can’t players that like hardcore things get what they like and what benefits them? because they are “eLiTisT?”

people in general want really hard-to-get items to show for, let’s face it. whether it be skill locked or rng locked. like favor gear in HW. grindy, almost impossible to achieve, but as a result, it makes it worth showing off and using. it’s like a trophy, a pride of accomplishment of something difficult. and while also simultaneously benefiting crafters. tools, gear, and rng all benefits crafters. how exactly does a mount, title, and glam benefit a crafter? now, if these were extremely unattainable to get, I can see why crafters would want it. but it won’t be. it’ll be a cake walk, as usual. you know how Yoshida rolls. Mr. Casual a-hoy comes to save the day, as usual lol

you agreed with me, they don’t know what they are doing, period. they need someone who does know what they are doing. I think they should replace Yoshida with someone else, or have someone else in charge of FFXIV’s economy/crafting/gathering



are u trolling? ive read the posts in this section and people have always said what they want. you’re intentionally ignoring what you’ve been told and asking questions you already know the answer to hunny

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I can assure you that I'm not trolling, I'm merely curious why you think better gear would be a good reward - it comes up a lot indeed in threads like this, usually mentioned by some midlander with changing foren-accounts and names, so seeing it brought up by a Viera is a surprise for once!

To go through your points one by one:
I usually argue with people who confuse "difficulty" with the terrible RNG we had in ARR - and who seem to missremember that crafting was never difficult, just more or less RNG and more or less long rotations to combat that. My point always is: Introducing more RNG wont make crafting difficult or skillbased, it will make it luckbased.
I also dont believe in this idea thats being brought up constantly that people seem to wish to have a heavly gated "crafting elite" - crafting doesnt need to be super easy, but I dont see why we should lock people out of it or scare them away. The stepping stones in the past were incredibly hard - had an FC-mate once who reached level70 on their crafters about half a year (...maybe a bit more, even) into SB. They wanted to make their crafting gear themself and I had to convince them to let me craft it because they would have had to craft and fully meld two gearsets just to craft the next one (which would have been a terrible waste of material and materia).

Now... to answer your questions:
Why do I argue? - Mainly to figure out what people actually want. Often these rant-posts are not very easy to read, being littered with things like "lol" and suggestions that seem to me like they're not thought through. I'd like to see if common ground can be reached so that an actual suggestion can be made.
Whats the benefit of me wearing a Neo Ishgarding Top of Fending? - Several, actually. First of all, I wanted something to test my macro for the new crafts on. Secondly better stats for my tank - which will either allow for more wiggle room for myself and my healer in content or make playing certain content outright possible. Third, eventually I've been thinking of turning it into a glamour.
Whats the benefit of me wearing a Deepshadow Helmet of Fending? - Mainly better stats that allow me to survive tankbuster in E4S even if my healers are lagging out again.
-> this is basically what I already mentioned in regards to better battle gear being a good reward: It makes content clearable or easier to clear. While there are certain caps to the benefits of those stats aswell, they're not as hard as the caps on crafting stats. In crafting, once you reach the excat craftmanship, control and CP that you need for your rotation to work, there is no real benefit to increasing any of those - thus better gear is useless. At least in terms of stats. Glamour on the other hand...
Whats the benefit of me being a Roe? Hairstyles that fit my taste. And she looks like she could knock people out with a single punch. I like that.
Whats the benefit of me glaming my gear to look like a battle maid? I didnt know I did that... I'm almost curious to know what outfit the lodestone was displaying when you looked me up. Its not really important though, because the answer is: Because I think its an oufit that suits my character and looks good on her. Since I have to see her all the time while playing the game, I like putting her in outfits that I like seeing.

I still dont see how better gear-stats would benefit crafters right at this moment. I'm beginning to see why you still want "special crafter rewards gear", though - in the best case, something only a handful of people can achieve: To show off. What you - and some other hardcore-crafters who may or may not be the same person - seem to really want is displaying that you're part of this elite club.
And you constantly confuse things that are tedious with things that are difficult - by "favor gear" do you mean the gear you crafted from materials that required "favor gathering"? If so... yeah, that wasnt difficult - it honestly wasnt even that grindy... I remember that it took me a while to get into it, but after I did it wasnt to bad.

You also seem to contradict yourself here: You want something to "show off" - mounts, minions and titles are made with excatly that purpose. Thats why you see people afk'ing on their Savage-mounts in the endgame-hubs (and why people are upset that Eulmore doesnt allow for that) and why people run around with their "The Legend"-titles. They're a means to show off even if you dont want to display the weapon you got from Ultimate or dont like the design of the gear from Savage and/or replace said gear with something that has better stats. Mounts, minions and titles can be displayed without affecting your overall gear or glamour choice - and they're something the "hardcore elite" can work towards while still allowing everyone else to participate in the content. (I really dont believe in locking people out, sorry - nothing "casual" about it, just the general notion that everyone should be free to try every content on entry-level and then decide how much time and energy they want to invest into it)

Tools and gear (and RNG - how would RNG be a reward? Are you thinking about those boost-items we had in HW?), if we just consider the stats, only benefit a crafter as means to an end - and once you reach an amount of stats that lets you craft everything comfortably, there is no more reward there.

Showing off... can be done with mounts, minions, titles and glamour.

I suppose I'm not the right person to tell wether thats a worthy cause or not - I'm simply not one to show off. My glamour-, mount-, minion- and title-choice in game always aim to go well together and to create an image of my character that I like - not one to impress other people or show them how super cool and skilled I am. I never really understood this desire of people to display themselves as "someone whos better than the rest" in a game, but hey... if thats what you want, sure, request something as a reward that helps with it. Just keep in mind that it probably wont help crafters - just their egos.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

snipe

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I clearly see You don't understand op, and I won't say anything special because why even try

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Originally Posted by testname

I clearly see You don't understand op, and I won't say anything special because why even try

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I'll admit that I really dont understand what it is they want, so please enlighten me!

Is it gear that really brings them forward, aka has a benefit in the sense of better stats?
Is it simply showing off?
Is it keeping "filthy casuals" out of crafting as much as possible?
Is it truely more difficult crafting, as in recipes and challenges that make you think - or are they still hung up on the weird notion that luck, RNG and praying are a challenge and want that back?
Do they seek an actualy challenge for the fun of the challenge - or do they just want something exclusive to rub into other peoples faces to feel special?

I'm really at a loss here, because I dont understand why "better gear" would be a good reward if theres nothing that better gear allows you to do - yet its been claimed that its a desired reward. I'd like to understand why - if it doesnt enable you to do anything new or special or even just improve on what you've already been doing... why would it be something you want?
Or is what you actually want something more thats locked behind getting this better gear first? New recipes that can only be crafted with better stats that require you to have this better gear - kinda like what happens every other patch...

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Originally Posted by Vidu

I'll admit that I really dont understand what it is they want, so please enlighten me!

Is it gear that really brings them forward, aka has a benefit in the sense of better stats?
Is it simply showing off?
Is it keeping "filthy casuals" out of crafting as much as possible?
Is it truely more difficult crafting, as in recipes and challenges that make you think - or are they still hung up on the weird notion that luck, RNG and praying are a challenge and want that back?
Do they seek an actualy challenge for the fun of the challenge - or do they just want something exclusive to rub into other peoples faces to feel special?

I'm really at a loss here, because I dont understand why "better gear" would be a good reward if theres nothing that better gear allows you to do - yet its been claimed that its a desired reward. I'd like to understand why - if it doesnt enable you to do anything new or special or even just improve on what you've already been doing... why would it be something you want?
Or is what you actually want something more thats locked behind getting this better gear first? New recipes that can only be crafted with better stats that require you to have this better gear - kinda like what happens every other patch...

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lol at this point I am convinced you are trolling...my post above pretty much summarized what these people in general want. like I said earlier, ive noticed you constantly argue without rest, when it comes to people not liking the current state of crafting. and even when someone explains what it is that’s wrong with it, you still want to argue

these people deserve to get what they want out of the game, not just you lol i can see why testname said what she said...