Paladins should use Hallowed Ground more often in dungeons

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Originally Posted by SamRF

No not at all. Only the Hallowed Ground would be for extra dps. The Clemency + shield bashing only if you know for sure you are overpulling (bc you or healer are undergeared) and don't think you can survive. Now, with having this in mind, you could potentially decide to sometimes overpull (even though you're undergeared), knowing that you might survive by this method.

Like I've said in another reply, this likely isn't relevant for endgame so arguably this thread is pointless.

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I can see where you're coming from, most often then naught an underpowered tank would just pull small and just go through the instance normally, but if you're a high risk (and if you're lucky) high reward type that could possibly be interesting lol, you'd have to put some high faith in the dps in the dps and healer or watch them go:

dps1: d-did the tank just hallow ground?!
dps2: OMG KILL THEM!! KILL THEM FAST!!!
healer: WE'RE ALL GONNA DIIIIIIIE!!!
All: AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!! /panic

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Originally Posted by Blackheart

I can see where you're coming from, most often then naught an underpowered tank would just pull small and just go through the instance normally, but if you're a high risk (and if you're lucky) high reward type that could possibly be interesting lol, you'd have to put some high faith in the dps in the dps and healer or watch them go:

dps1: d-did the tank just hallow ground?!
dps2: OMG KILL THEM!! KILL THEM FAST!!!
healer: WE'RE ALL GONNA DIIIIIIIE!!!
All: AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!! /panic

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the dps and the healer will be doing the exact rotation they would be doing otherwise why would anyone panic

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Originally Posted by SamRF

This is what I had in mind. Sacrificing my own dps so I could do a bigger pull (which me and healer are not ready for gear wise), which could then result in more total dps. You can argue this might barely make a difference (making this thread might have taken more time than the difference between all those specific large/small pulls lol) but it's more fun imo to take those risks sometimes and feels rewarding when you manage to pull it off and effectively save time.

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If you're talking time efficiency, all the more reason for PLD not to use clemency.

Any tank+healer combination has all the tools needed to go full dps on big pulls.

The only time, imo, that PLD should even consider using Clemency is under strict emergency situations where its usage is required for either their own survival, or the survival of a party member whose death will lead to a wipe (read: primarily only in EX/Savage/Ultimate). Outside of those rare scenarios Clemency shouldn't be touched, as the damage you lose from Holy Spirit/Holy Circle and Conf is just far too immense for those extra 4-5 healer DPS GCDs to come close to making up for it.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

If you're talking time efficiency, all the more reason for PLD not to use clemency.

Any tank+healer combination has all the tools needed to go full dps on big pulls.

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This is the case when tank and healer are either in endgame or/and properly geared, I've mentioned in previous replies that you should only do it when you know for sure you are overpulling and will likely die if you only rely on oGCD + healer.

I agree on hallowed ground thing, it does increase the team dps if healer is willing to use dps skills.
Well however anything else is false.

Shield bash is never used by PLD, if you need stun or silence there are 2 oGCD that fits in better for example when stopping big mob from executing aoe.
Paladin should never been asked to use clemency to heal himself, why? Because healers have more than enough tools to deal with paladins health, most of their skills are supportive or healing abilities they could use on PLD, if they cant handle it then let them learn their own job and know they are doing mistakes.
I am more willing to let healer kill me than i healing myself, he made a mistake and he should know about it.
There is no such thing as "overpulling" now in this game, all new dungeons are super easy to go through, and the ones that used to be hard are easy due to the ilvl and stats increase.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I agree on hallowed ground thing, it does increase the team dps if healer is willing to use dps skills.
Well however anything else is false.

Shield bash is never used by PLD, if you need stun or silence there are 2 oGCD that fits in better for example when stopping big mob from executing aoe.
Paladin should never been asked to use clemency to heal himself, why? Because healers have more than enough tools to deal with paladins health, most of their skills are supportive or healing abilities they could use on PLD, if they cant handle it then let them learn their own job and know they are doing mistakes.
I am more willing to let healer kill me than i healing myself, he made a mistake and he should know about it.
There is no such thing as "overpulling" now in this game, all new dungeons are super easy to go through, and the ones that used to be hard are easy due to the ilvl and stats increase.

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I can't speak about endgame but there definitely are leveling dungeons where you can overpull, especially if you/healer are undergeared.

OP has a wonderful message that CAN'T be stressed enough. The number of PLDs that view their invuln as this sacred jewel that is to be reserved strictly for emergencies is TOO DAMN HIGH!

Mitigation is best appreciated when incoming damage is at its absolute highest. When is that? At that start of the pull when all things are alive! Just POP it!

I understand where you're coming from but I personally think that if you are wanting to prioritise dps over healing when playing a healer role, you shouldn't be playing the role in the first place. Not every tank you encounter can guarantee that something wont go wrong later on that a Hallowed Ground could've saved the party from.

With a tank player you can trust, maybe. But otherwise, no.

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Originally Posted by Vinutus

I understand where you're coming from but I personally think that if you are wanting to prioritise dps over healing when playing a healer role, you shouldn't be playing the role in the first place. Not every tank you encounter can guarantee that something wont go wrong later on that a Hallowed Ground could've saved the party from.

With a tank player you can trust, maybe. But otherwise, no.

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I want to point out a flaw with this line of thinking: we're talking dungeons here.

If hallowed ground isn't going to be used at the start of a big pull, when incoming damage is at its most lethal, then by default you're suggesting that it should be reserved for boss mechanics.

Those aren't savage bosses. Those are casual bosses. There is SO much lenience in those fights, the idea HG may be needed sounds like wishful thinking to fulfill some hero complex. If you were to follow that line of thinking, the poor button would gather dust and see use once a blue moon, if at that. Incoming damage from those fights is so low, it is a waste by comparison to large pulls. Even assuming that hallowed ground could be used in a ~*dire situation*~, 10 seconds is not going to make or break a bad situation if it wound up there in the first place. You'd be far better off spamming clemency.

You may as well be preaching that all PLDs should reserve their mana and requiescat strictly for clemency under the pretense that if "they want to prioritize DPSing over staying alive, they shouldn't be playing the role."